Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#161

Post by nixy » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:00 PM UTC

latj wrote: post #113

nixy wrote: post #26

I'm a Swedish developer. This year I have 7 weeks of vacation, and I plan to use it all. I normally get the 5 weeks required by law. Last year, I only used 4 of those 5 weeks, so one spilled over to this year. I also got a bonus week of vacation for working a lot of overtime last summer. So that makes 7 weeks.

Hur kan man hitta ett jobb i Sverige? ;) Måste man talar svenska?

Hehe no, most often not. If you're a webguy, contact me (nixy at bede dot se). We're hiring in Stockholm! (The e-mail domain has nothing to do with the company, it is my private e-mail.)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#162

Post by jasonkester » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:02 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #146

dmm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live on less than half of your net(take-home) pay and save the rest. Now for every month that you work, you are also saving a month's worth of living expenses. After two years of this you have two years of fuck you money. Two years is enough time to learn python or something else significant. Your savings can last even longer if you get a $10/hr job such as waiting tables part-time. Work daily on developing marketabl…

Recent grads are only making ~40k, some times less, some times considerably less (people have posted Ask HNs about this topic before). As someone who used to be in that camp, living off half your net at that salary range is not realistic; living on 75% is barely so, if you're eating bologna sandwiches every night. Having a second job is a great idea, it's just too bad you can't get a good consulting job when you're a…

Most undergrads are only making ~$0/year, and seem to get by just fine. Adding an extra $40k into the mix would only seem to help.

I made $37k at my first job, and managed to put $10k of that into the market for the first four years. So yes, it's possible.

Everything the grandparent says is good advice (apart from the waiting tables thing. Freelancing pays 10-30x as much.) Live cheap when you're young, bank away as much as possible, spend your 30s living on a beach. It's very doable if that's what you want.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#163

Post by eropple » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:03 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #146

dmm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live on less than half of your net(take-home) pay and save the rest. Now for every month that you work, you are also saving a month's worth of living expenses. After two years of this you have two years of fuck you money. Two years is enough time to learn python or something else significant. Your savings can last even longer if you get a $10/hr job such as waiting tables part-time. Work daily on developing marketabl…

Recent grads are only making ~40k, some times less, some times considerably less (people have posted Ask HNs about this topic before). As someone who used to be in that camp, living off half your net at that salary range is not realistic; living on 75% is barely so, if you're eating bologna sandwiches every night. Having a second job is a great idea, it's just too bad you can't get a good consulting job when you're a…

Dunno where you are, but in New England $60k seems to be entry level and you can get much more if you're skilled and have good college-age work experience.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#164

Post by geon » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:03 PM UTC

latj wrote: post #113

nixy wrote: post #26

I'm a Swedish developer. This year I have 7 weeks of vacation, and I plan to use it all. I normally get the 5 weeks required by law. Last year, I only used 4 of those 5 weeks, so one spilled over to this year. I also got a bonus week of vacation for working a lot of overtime last summer. So that makes 7 weeks.

Hur kan man hitta ett jobb i Sverige? ;) Måste man talar svenska?

Most jobs are advertised at the government-run (but great) Platsbanken

google-translated: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=...

I cant imagine Swedish would be much of an issue if you work with software development. Even outside technology, most swedes speak english well enough for basic communication.

Still, if you get a work permit (easy), you get to attend free Swedish lessons.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#165

Post by potatolicious » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:06 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #107

wccrawford wrote: post #4

When I complained to an employer that it was too hard to request my vacation time (it's in my contract, they made it very hard to pick dates by always having an emergency deadline, etc) they replied "It's like that everywhere", as if it was a legit answer. Many employers also lump in sick time with vacation time, as if that's a replacement since you didn't come into work. That would probably be okay, if you had an op…

Think about your choice of words up there, and you might just come up with your solution. Force. As in, my employer is forcing me to take shorter vacations. My employer is forcing me to work my vacations around their schedule. That's not what he's doing. He's coercing you. It's different. He's implying that if you take the vacation you want, there might not be a job waiting when you get back. The answer to that is "f…

> "Quit thinking in those terms and you'll live a much happier life."

I agree in principle, but it's not always so simple. When you're young, have no kids, no mortgage, no car loan, etc, it's pretty easy to just say "fuck off, see ya" when your employer acts abusively.

When you have all of the above, that becomes more difficult. Relocating is more often than not the norm in this industry, and you don't exactly want to sell your house, or move your kids around, etc etc.

Disclaimer: I don't have kids, or a mortgage, and I'm very mobile right now, but I also understand this probably won't last forever.

It's a warning for living beyond your means anyways - I've noticed many people that I work with have huge mortgages out, to the point where the continuous stream of income becomes paramount - even a few months of interruption could possibly mean ruin for them. This strikes me as an idiotic fiscal policy.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#166

Post by dmm » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:09 PM UTC

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #146

dmm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Live on less than half of your net(take-home) pay and save the rest. Now for every month that you work, you are also saving a month's worth of living expenses. After two years of this you have two years of fuck you money. Two years is enough time to learn python or something else significant. Your savings can last even longer if you get a $10/hr job such as waiting tables part-time. Work daily on developing marketabl…

Recent grads are only making ~40k, some times less, some times considerably less (people have posted Ask HNs about this topic before). As someone who used to be in that camp, living off half your net at that salary range is not realistic; living on 75% is barely so, if you're eating bologna sandwiches every night. Having a second job is a great idea, it's just too bad you can't get a good consulting job when you're a…

Up until January of this year I was making $40,084.00/yr. That means about $2k/month net.

I was paying $156/month on rent by living in a small house with two roommates. I drive a 15yo car that is paid off and I live 3km from work so I don't depend on it.

You can live on $12k/yr, you just chose not to.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#167

Post by grosales » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:10 PM UTC

k3dz wrote: post #105

joss82 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here it is, and it's awesome: http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2007/02/two-weeks-vaca...

you can do that only if you are a senior dev.. what do junior devs, recent college grads do?

I did that as a mid level dev. I had timing on my side though. I waited until we finished a big project, and then I presented my two week letter and went on a month long trip. I came back and found a job almost immediately. My point being that when your body asks you for change, do not hold back, and make that change. Be confident in your skills and don't be afraid of telling your boss that you need a break. Because even though the Germans may think so, we are not robots.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#168

Post by dmm » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

jasonkester wrote: post #162

MatthewPhillips wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent grads are only making ~40k, some times less, some times considerably less (people have posted Ask HNs about this topic before). As someone who used to be in that camp, living off half your net at that salary range is not realistic; living on 75% is barely so, if you're eating bologna sandwiches every night. Having a second job is a great idea, it's just too bad you can't get a good consulting job when you're a…

Most undergrads are only making ~$0/year, and seem to get by just fine. Adding an extra $40k into the mix would only seem to help. I made $37k at my first job, and managed to put $10k of that into the market for the first four years. So yes, it's possible. Everything the grandparent says is good advice (apart from the waiting tables thing. Freelancing pays 10-30x as much.) Live cheap when you're young, bank away as m…

I just mentioned waiting tables because it was a job almost anyone could do and that pays decently. It's something you could find quickly to stretch savings between jobs. I don't have any experience with freelancing but that's probably a better idea.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#169

Post by mapgrep » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:16 PM UTC

wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

The reason American workers say they can barely survive on $60k a year is that they pay out of pocket for things German workers can take for granted:

* Comfortable retirement - 401k contributions. Yes America has social security but it's not a ton of money compared to other national pensions and if you're young you worry about it not being around at all by the time you need it.

* Unemployment - You should probably have ~6 months living expenses saved up, if not a year, in case you get laid off. U.S. unemployment benefits are fairly marginal (~700 per month cap when I used them in 2002, which you owe tax on), especially compared to Germany/France.

* Life insurance - If you have kids and/or a non working spouse you need to make sure they will be OK if you die, since we have such a weak social safety net.

* Education for your kids - 529 and educational IRA plans allow people to save for our increasingly expensive higher education even before the child is born (I-Bonds can be used this way). Cuts to public colleges have been harsh this year so don't think those will save you.

Yes many Americans blow their salaries on dumb consumerist crap, and tend to overinvest in things like real estate. But even the prudent ones will be trying to jack up their salaries because there are SO many things you are supposed to save for to be considered a responsible American adult.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#170

Post by enjo » Mon, May 23, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

brown9-2 wrote: post #132

geebee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done this, though I didn't realize what I was doing at the time. I was working for Sun Microsystems, which gave me two weeks of vacation time. Sun was doing a forced shutdown over the week of the 4th of July, which burned 4 days, and then there was the inevitable "shutdown" over christmas break, which burned another three days. This left me with 3 days of "elective" vacation time. A wedding took care of those. I…

Until today I have never heard of a US company forcing employee's to use "forced shutdown" days - which I'm interpreting to mean the company telling people they have off on a certain day - as vacation days, and this is the second time (at least) it's been mentioned in this thread. How common is this exactly? Because this sounds like a company that is really, really screwing it's employees.

These furloughs have become absolutely routine for municipal governments. In the (likely) event of a budget shortfall, they just shutdown for one friday a month (or some variation) and take either vacation days or a day of pay away.