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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#181

Post by Florin_Andrei »

Silhouette wrote: post #88

The thing I find most interesting about this discussion is that we have not yet seen anyone from the US proudly claiming that by working harder they are more productive than the rest of us. I have seen similar conversations several times on various on-line forums in the past, and there was always a defensive/proud mindset from a significant group, even as those of us outside the US wondered if they realised how much…

It's a death spiral.

Work harder / longer - shift to extreme right-wing politics - slowly lose status as the "greatest nation in the world" - grit your teeth and work even harder / longer...

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#182

Post by nolok »

wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

Question to non-french here, does your advertised salary include the employer's tax ?

For exemple here in France, on the salary my employer pays, it's divided pretty much like this: 40% employer's taxes, 20% employee's taxes, 40% final amount of money you put in the bank when all is said and done.

BUT my negociated salary, the one I signed on, never included employer's taxes, so for a 100€ salary I never discussed 100€ or even thought of it at any point, my contract has always been about 60€ (and then I pay about 20€ in taxes).

For me what that really changes is that:

- if employer's taxes increses, I have no idea about it, and my pay check doesn't change at all (neither if it decreases)

- our perceived salary seems to be a lot lower than some other countries.

So what I'm asking is, when you guys speak about that kind of salary being way too low, is it a "complete" salary or is it after employer's taxes ? I live with less that those 60k$/42k€ and I can afford a nice middle class life in the middle of Paris plus vacations every year ...

PS: actually if you look at french job offers, you will see "brut" and/or "net" salaries, brut is pre employee's taxes, net is post.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#184

Post by dmm »

cdr wrote: post #172
dmm wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until January of this year I was making $40,084.00/yr. That means about $2k/month net. I was paying $156/month on rent by living in a small house with two roommates. I drive a 15yo car that is paid off and I live 3km from work so I don't depend on it. You can live on $12k/yr, you just chose not to.

I can't imagine you were living anywhere desirable that you could pay $156/month in rent. People living in high cost of living areas can't reasonably live on $12K/year. Luckily, they mostly get paid a lot better $40K/year because they have to.

> People living in high cost of living areas

Feudalism has been eliminated, you could always move. But you're absolutely right. People who choose to live in pricey areas don't get to enjoy extended vacations right out of college. It's your choice to make though.

I visited San Jose a month ago. It's a gorgeous area and the culture is something really special, but it's expensive as hell. But that's fine if you think it's worth it.

Where I live a 3br/2bth house can be rented for <$500. It makes a level of financial independence available that I couldn't have living in CA or most of the east coast.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#185

Post by macrael »

I've found this is something that really surprises Europeans. But, once, when I was comparing notes with some travelers in a hostel in New Zealand, we asked a South Korean among us for his perspective. He said that he and everyone he knows gets maybe 2 days paid vacation a year. They work most weekends and get maybe 1 holiday. He said if you want to travel, you have to quit your job to do it, with no guarantee you will get another when you get back.

This changed my perspective. The difference between that and the States' 10ish days off is much greater than the difference between us and Europe. It is hard for me to imagine. Can anyone else with knowledge of East Asia chime in? Was this guy's experience representative? If so, it is a bit silly to call America the "no vacation nation." We do get vacation.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#186

Post by chrisaycock »

mapgrep wrote: post #169
wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

The reason American workers say they can barely survive on $60k a year is that they pay out of pocket for things German workers can take for granted: * Comfortable retirement - 401k contributions. Yes America has social security but it's not a ton of money compared to other national pensions and if you're young you worry about it not being around at all by the time you need it. * Unemployment - You should probably ha…

And not to mention:

* Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens.

* Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#187

Post by rmc »

bretthoerner wrote: post #151
mattmanser wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the norm in the UK, companies close over the holidays and there are mandatory holidays that go with that. Being clear about this with new (and especially young) employees is a good idea as to people straight out of college, it's not obvious. But there's certainly nothing dodgy about it.

Mandatory closing are one thing. Hell, I'd like to have the holidays off anyway. But it's 50% of his total time off. Is that "the norm"?

Considering the UK minimum holiday entitlement is 4 weeks and there are 2 public holidays there (Christmas Day and Boxing Day), employees only need to take 3 days annual leave (15% their yearly total) and the company can close for one calendar week.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#188

Post by lutorm »

latj wrote: post #113
nixy wrote: post #26

I'm a Swedish developer. This year I have 7 weeks of vacation, and I plan to use it all. I normally get the 5 weeks required by law. Last year, I only used 4 of those 5 weeks, so one spilled over to this year. I also got a bonus week of vacation for working a lot of overtime last summer. So that makes 7 weeks.

Hur kan man hitta ett jobb i Sverige? ;) Måste man talar svenska?

Nej. At least, I'd bet. But it might make it easier.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#189

Post by yardie »

Silhouette wrote: post #88

The thing I find most interesting about this discussion is that we have not yet seen anyone from the US proudly claiming that by working harder they are more productive than the rest of us. I have seen similar conversations several times on various on-line forums in the past, and there was always a defensive/proud mindset from a significant group, even as those of us outside the US wondered if they realised how much…

The financial mess has created the exact opposite effect. Now, in the name of cost cutting and efficiency, employers are making people work more hours with less vacation time. No one complains and just go with the idea that, "at least I have a job".

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#190

Post by whakojacko »

nolok wrote: post #182
wheels wrote: post #141

This was one of the major draws for me for moving to Europe in my early 20s (from the US). After working one year in the US and having one week of vacation, it was bordering on surreal to have 6. That said, most Americans wouldn't like the European pay scales. While a developer gets 3-6 times the vacation in Germany, they make half as much money. For me it was a great trade; I still had a middle class income and spen…

Question to non-french here, does your advertised salary include the employer's tax ? For exemple here in France, on the salary my employer pays, it's divided pretty much like this: 40% employer's taxes, 20% employee's taxes, 40% final amount of money you put in the bank when all is said and done. BUT my negociated salary, the one I signed on, never included employer's taxes, so for a 100€ salary I never discussed 10…

In the US, yes. The various taxes that employers must pay are paid separately, not taken out of their salary. If someone is talking about $60k or whatever, their takehome is $60k-federal income tax - social security tax - medicare tax - state income tax (some states don't have this, but most do)- local income tax (rare). On top of that, you are also likely going to have deductions for health/dental/etc insurance, and then pre-tax payments to your retirement plan (401k).

Separately, the company must pay a few other taxes on that $60k (nowhere near 40%, though)

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