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Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

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Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#121

Post by henearkr »

miskin wrote: post #98
ed25519FUUU wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think it’s worth. The amount of life lost to people with chronic Lyme is significant, even if the number of infected is low.

But as the parent explained, many of these chronic Lyme patients may be just misdiagnosed. They believe they have Lyme, but the problem is some other disease.

If chronic Lyme illness is caused by lingering bacteria hidding in the body's tissues, the real way to eliminate any doubts about alternate causes is precisely to get a Lyme vaccine. Then, if the symptoms persist, we could easily deduce that the cause is other.

Except that one thing... the chronic Lyme could very well caused by an autoimmune side-effect (this is among the most serious explanations), in which case I don't think the vaccine would help.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#122

Post by henearkr »

spijdar wrote: post #36
elil17 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a Lyme disease vaccine. However, the manufacturer refuses to sell it for human use due to PR threats from conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, creating vaccines is only half the battle. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

I found that article very interesting, and think describing the pushback as PR threats from conspiracy theorists oversimplifies just a bit. Aa mentioned in the article, it's very possible the vaccine triggers a rare, genetically associated autoimmune disorder normally caused by Lyme disease. It was also released roughly concurrently with at least one vaccine that was legitimately withdrawn for safety reasons. Compare…

Some serious theories to explain chronic Lyme precisely suggest that it is an autoimmune reaction caused by the bacteria biofilm proteins. That would explain both why the chronic Lyme can persist even after the bacteria have seemingly been eradicated, and the effects of the vaccine sometimes observed.

In this case the vaccine's purpose is defeated, as the real life-spoiler is the chronic Lyme. Acute Lyme is well treated by the antibiotics.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#123

Post by elcomet »

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #93
Debug_Overload wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking into account anything conspiracy nutjobs have to say about this stuff is an exercise in futility. They will not not find another wild excuse to declare conspiracy.

That might be the case, but it was just another way of saying that causing false positives on HIV tests is a huge issue for a vaccine. It should absolutely be prevented if possible, or at the very least adresssed somehow.

Well new tests have to be developed, that don't trigger when people are vaccinated but non ill.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#124

Post by blackrock »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #87
cycrutchfield wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very odd that dogs can get vaccinated for Lyme but not humans...

Agreed. I wonder about the trolley problem that is medical testing requirements. It seems like we, as a society, would tend to never want to pull the lever to save more at the cost of risking a few. Social and contractual liability makes it a bad trade. Acceptable risk is very low which can, paradoxically, cause more death and discomfort. It would be nice to see a greater awareness of the tradeoffs. These things tend…

Theoretical question here: Do you want to be the one sacrificial lamb that dies, in order for the rest of us to live?

If you want to play Jesus here, then I’m sure the rest of society will support you.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#125

Post by hvidgaard »

e9 wrote: post #25
hooloovoo_zoo wrote: post #19

Would it be easier to cover more flu strains with an mRNA vaccine? Could we shove like 100 in there?

There is a Netflix documentary called Pandemic about couple that is trying to eradicate flu. They found vaccine that works on all flu viruses but it takes 6 shots to work. That’s not practical at all therefore it’s not on the market yet.

6 shots is not that bad. Many people get a shot every year, so as long as it protects you for 6+ years, it's better than the alternative.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#126

Post by bijant »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #88
Guthur wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And could you blame people for being paranoid when the CIA have used vaccine programs for various purposes in the past. Though they've apparently now stopped.

I assume you are referring to the time the CIA co-opted an immunisation programme as part of the hunt for Bin Laden. I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested that the CIA has tampered with the vaccines. They merely co-opted the inoculation process in order to gain a biological sample.

It doesn't matter whether they tampered with the vaccine. They destroyed trust in international vaccine Programs and the Health Workers that are administering the vaccines are facing the blowback.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#127

Post by KraftKacke »

henearkr wrote: post #121
miskin wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But as the parent explained, many of these chronic Lyme patients may be just misdiagnosed. They believe they have Lyme, but the problem is some other disease.

If chronic Lyme illness is caused by lingering bacteria hidding in the body's tissues, the real way to eliminate any doubts about alternate causes is precisely to get a Lyme vaccine. Then, if the symptoms persist, we could easily deduce that the cause is other. Except that one thing... the chronic Lyme could very well caused by an autoimmune side-effect (this is among the most serious explanations), in which case I d…

I don't think that's a very scientific approach as a vaccine may have other effects on the symptoms.

Finding lingering bacteria would be the right call. Autopsy or biopsy. And then get better testing, less "false positive".

With no specific (set of) symptoms, symptom based evidence seems inherently weak.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#128

Post by Guthur »

scoopertrooper wrote: post #88
Guthur wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And could you blame people for being paranoid when the CIA have used vaccine programs for various purposes in the past. Though they've apparently now stopped.

I assume you are referring to the time the CIA co-opted an immunisation programme as part of the hunt for Bin Laden. I don't think anyone has ever seriously suggested that the CIA has tampered with the vaccines. They merely co-opted the inoculation process in order to gain a biological sample.

I'm not suggesting they have, but it will make people in these rural communities rather paranoid or impressionable.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#129

Post by KraftKacke »

spijdar wrote: post #36
elil17 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We already have a Lyme disease vaccine. However, the manufacturer refuses to sell it for human use due to PR threats from conspiracy theorists. Unfortunately, creating vaccines is only half the battle. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2870557/

I found that article very interesting, and think describing the pushback as PR threats from conspiracy theorists oversimplifies just a bit. Aa mentioned in the article, it's very possible the vaccine triggers a rare, genetically associated autoimmune disorder normally caused by Lyme disease. It was also released roughly concurrently with at least one vaccine that was legitimately withdrawn for safety reasons. Compare…

Autoimmunity is so scary. It sucks that pathogens evolve to hide by exploiting the body's friendly fire avoidance.

Btw. the molecular mimicry of the spike protein may cause autoimmunity as well. Time will tell if that only applies to SARS2 or the vaccine as well.

No source: There was a paper on a model for cross reacting to normal cell proteins in /r/COVID19, but I am on mobile and blocked reddit everywhere now. Should be easy to find.

Re: Moderna is announcing three new vaccine programs

#130

Post by KraftKacke »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #65
peteretep wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can also have dogs "put to sleep" but not people. You can also keep a dog on a leash. If a dog dies, there's no need for a coroner's report. It's not _that_ odd that human and dog medicine are held to different levels of testing and safety.

> We can also have dogs "put to sleep" but not people. It's not like this is without controversy; it's an active political battle.

I think this was rather implying we put down dogs, if they break too expensive to fix. The vaccine was probably grinding through loads of "pets" in development.

Very different than "putting down" terminally ill people on their own choice and action.

Tho, maybe similar to the eugenic endeavors of the past. I hope you're not implying that's what's in debate again.

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