Redox OS ???
Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
81–90 of 153 posts
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. And they are, and they might help you, but trying to ask scientific or metaphysical quæstions about it, is an exercise in futility. > BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "…
You guys realize you're simply arguing about preferred definitions of the word, right? Here, let me join the party. I disagree with both of you, because mathematically it should be the case that applying "identity" to x should yield back x for all x.
I would say it is worth to have a conversation about definitions of words. Having your definitions straight is a huge chunk of being able to think properly, and thus to act in the world in the way that we truly want.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
You are using identity yourself all the time. You just mentioned philosophy, this TV series, gold, that ship and that plank, and on close inspection there would probably be a thousand more cases in your last post where you relied on identity. Identity is one of the most fundamental concepts, without it you would have a hard time splitting the universe into more than one distinct piece in order to reference and talk a…
> You are using identity yourself all the time. You just mentioned philosophy, this TV series, gold, that ship and that plank, and on close inspection there would probably be a thousand more cases in your last post where you relied on identity. And none of those are scientific inquiries where I proffer rigorous methodology. > Identity is one of the most fundamental concepts, without it you would have a hard time spli…
And none of those are scientific inquiries where I proffer rigorous methodology.
But it obviously works, I did not confuse the ship and the plank or you and the TV series, which tells us that identity is a useful concept we can use to navigate the world. The fact, that it may be hard to formalize the concept and deal with all the edge cases, does not change that.
Yet various exact scientific inquiries work very well without assuming it's existence or that there be a difference between same and different identity.
Can you provide any example?
It is a very simple problem. The answer is: “identity is a pseudoscientific concept that is “not even wrong”.”.
It is so vague, so bereft of any definition that the claim of whether that two references share the same identity is “not even wrong”.
I am pretty sure people doing homotopy type theory [1] would disagree. And I am just picking this because it has gotten quite a bit of attention in recent years but people have put a lot of work into thinking about identity and equality over the centuries.
And that is why the various models of exact sciences typically to not require that such arbitrary lines be drawn of what is and isn't a different “thing”.
Same as above, I would like to hear an example.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abst…
> By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. And they are, and they might help you, but trying to ask scientific or metaphysical quæstions about it, is an exercise in futility. > BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "…
> And they are, and they might help you, but trying to ask scientific or metaphysical quæstions about it, is an exercise in futility.
What non-futile metaphysical questions are left, then? Is metaphysics completely futile? If so, is philosophy of science itself pseudoscience?
As far as I understand, most logical positivists would indeed reject philosophy of science. On the other hand, philosophy of science mostly put an end to logical positivism — and showed that we do need metaphysics after all. This paradigm shift also brought useful concepts such as falsifiability.
Of course, we are all free to choose whatever philosophy we want. I just personally find logical positivism and its rejection of metaphysics unconvincing.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#85The name alludes to the Ship of Theseus, a thought experiment where, over the course of many repairs, every piece of a ship is eventually replaced. Given that, I found it interesting that this is applied to a novel greenfield OS effort, instead of a project to rewrite an existing OS in Rust piece-by-piece.
It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…
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Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
You might be thinking of the Taos Operating System? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9806607 http://www.uruk.org/emu/Taos.html It had an object oriented assembly language that everything compiled to and it JIT'd/on-fly-compiled code IIRC. Sounded very cool.
These things always sound cool.
Unfortunely when these things actually suceed on the market, we only get IBM and Unysis mainframes, Android, watchOS and .NET Native/WinRT, which are always a kind of compromise of the whole idea.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
You seem to assume that any process reasoning or thinking has to be scientific to be useful. A very dubious proposition. Given your example, thinking about who is beautiful and who isn't (not "Scientific Study", just thinking) would be pointless is well, and in reality, in practical objective reality of a lot of people, isn't. > quickly leading to reductions to the absurd such as here. That is the whole point of the…
> You seem to assume that any process reasoning or thinking has to be scientific to be useful. A very dubious proposition. No, in fact, I clearly said that they were useful but not scientific. My problem with The Ship of Theseus , is that it prætends to be scientific, whereas it is merely a futile quibble of semantics. > Giving your example, thinking about who is beautiful and who isn't (not "Scientific Study", just…
> My problem with The Ship of Theseus, is that it prætends to be scientific, whereas it is merely a futile quibble of semantics.
It doesn't pretend to be scientific (it does not purport to offer or relate to testable empirical hypotheses), it is a philosophical thought exercise illustrating that the concept of identity of a composite of mutable composition (pretty much every concrete thing in the real world) is arbitrary.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.
What OSes? Citation please. Microkernel as cpu architecture abstraction layer. Such are only accidentally microkernels and not OSes at all as i understand them. They deliver on what of all those wonderful lists of microkernel benefits?
Stuff like INTEGRITY OS and QNX.
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
"kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style" reads otherwise.
Providing _a posix filesystem_ as a kernel abstraction is what I said. Which is not very standard for microkernels, and makes it (redox) pretty unix like at the kernel level. The overall point being that both, microkernels can be unix likes, and redox particularly and at the kernel level leans in to being a unix like.
IBM and Unisys mainframes also support POSIX filesystems, as does Windows, so now they are UNIXes?
Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.
Eh, stuff like older vxworks plays loose and fast with the term microkernel that wouldn't fly today. I don't even think they try to claim that it is one anymore until their most recent release where they actually added (optional) process isolation.
I was thinking more of INTEGRITY OS and similar high integrity computing OSes.