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Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

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Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic you would need to call like half of all useful phenomena that most people's lives consist of and depend on, as "man-made delusion". We still need to interact with our lives, and many of the abstractions help us do that. BTW if you just replace the word "delusion" with "abstraction" you'll probably see how it makes a lot of sense. Every abstraction is a delusion by definition, is it not? Because the abst…

Are they really useful or are they just easy to copy and to rember? Staying power of memes in culture has little to do with their usefulness. Whole lot of popular narratives distract us from the nature of reality rather than helps us interact with it. I would gladly see introduction to particle physics that doesn't show a single sharp rigid sphere.

This is also an argument that is worth considering.

Many such distinctions that cannot be made rigorous that stick in various cultures but never existed in others simply exist because a man copies his fellow man, not because they are useful in achieving any goals.

Though, as I said, they exist to simplify reality. I assume he human brain works so it does, simply to conserve energy and admit an inaccurate though usually useful enough solution. The problem is when such fuzzy logic is mixed with actual rigorous logic and attempts are made to analyse the former with the latter — that I find a futile waste of time.

There is a very good reason that no clear answer has been found to the quæstion raised in The Ship of Theseus even after millennia of contemplation — there is none, and the quæstion is bereft of sense.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

Considering philosohy "pseudoscience" is what's silly. Without the human mind, there is no meaningful concept of "reality".

I made no claim as to the entirety of “philosophy”.

I made a claim as to the dealing in identities and the assumption that they can actually be reasoned about.

They have no definition and it's merely fuzzy human gut feeling what is and isn't a different identity and different men can't always see eye to eye on it either.

One thing I remember well is that I watched a television series as a child that had an magical object that turned everything it touched into gold. It eventually landed on a ship, and the ship turned to gold, and sank.

It defied my intuition, from where I sat only the plank on which it fell should be turned to gold, not the entire ship, for if the entire ship did, apparently it's power could transfer simply to objects pressed close enough to that which it touched, and that was inconsistent with past portrayal.

Clearly however the ship as an entire identity satisfied the intuition of the script writers, but my intuition felt that the plank was a single identity, not the ship.

There are no definitions and rigor here — it is simply every man's individual intuition.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#63
post #9

I did a ctrl+F for the word "redox" here, since that's already modern experimental OS being written in Rust that's existed for some time, and I was surprised not to see it mentioned at all; I figured there would be a section for modern OS neophytes like me comparing and constrasting the two. Anyone have any insight into how this project differs from Redox?

I've searched for redox in Google and this is the first time I see this layout (https://imgur.com/a/tVoKxBE) in Google search pages. Anyone knows if they planning redesign?

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#64
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's such a silly “thought experiment”. The simple answer is that “identity” is pseudoscience and does not exist; it's a man-made delusion created by the human mind to simplify reality and deal with it more easily. “identity” does not even apply to truly atomic particles, because there is no way to say that they aren't “different” in a next instance of time. There are far too many “thought experiments” and “quæstions…

Why is it a silly thought experiment? It makes us aware of exactly what you are describing.

That's a fair point, but I have rarely seen it interpreted as such.

I have usually seen extensive arguments and debates for whether the ship remains the same identity or not, and rarely do I see the opinion “The quæstion does not make sense, and the concept of “identity” is one of men, not nature.”

You can see in this comment tree already that many are defending the concept rather than admitting it's incorrect nature.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#65
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A microkernel is a valid implementation for a unix like. The way that posix filesystem semantics are a kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style".

Except contrary to urban myths that isn't exclusive to UNIX and precedes it.

I never said that was exclusive to unix likes, only that it being a microkernel doesn't preclude it from being a unix like.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#66
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except contrary to urban myths that isn't exclusive to UNIX and precedes it.

I never said that was exclusive to unix likes, only that it being a microkernel doesn't preclude it from being a unix like.

"kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style" reads otherwise.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#67
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you thinking of HP’s Dynamo? http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/classes/sp00/cse231/dynamopldi.pdf

It was almost definitely HP Dynamo. (Edit: if you combine ideas from HP Dynamo, SafeTSA JIT-optimized bytecode, and IBM's AS/400's TIMI/Technology Independent Machine Interface, you get a better version of the current Android Run Time for bytecode-distributed apps that compile ahead of time to native code and self-optimize at runtime based on low-overhead profiling.) The really nice thing about Dynamo was that it was…

If i could i'd upvote you thrice.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#68
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said that was exclusive to unix likes, only that it being a microkernel doesn't preclude it from being a unix like.

"kernel provided abstraction is very "unix style" reads otherwise.

Providing _a posix filesystem_ as a kernel abstraction is what I said. Which is not very standard for microkernels, and makes it (redox) pretty unix like at the kernel level.

The overall point being that both, microkernels can be unix likes, and redox particularly and at the kernel level leans in to being a unix like.

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#69
post #50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah totally valid implementation of which there have been a great many attempts, far too many to list here. Precisely none of them in 3-5 decades has managed to deliver on the promise of microkernels prompting the question: "Were huge microkernel advantages actually greatly oversold, is posix a massively debilitating factor that prevents microkernel based systems from delivering on their raison d'etre or was every s…

Yet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.

What OSes? Citation please.

Microkernel as cpu architecture abstraction layer. Such are only accidentally microkernels and not OSes at all as i understand them. They deliver on what of all those wonderful lists of microkernel benefits?

Re: Theseus: A modern experimental OS written from scratch in Rust

#70
post #50
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah totally valid implementation of which there have been a great many attempts, far too many to list here. Precisely none of them in 3-5 decades has managed to deliver on the promise of microkernels prompting the question: "Were huge microkernel advantages actually greatly oversold, is posix a massively debilitating factor that prevents microkernel based systems from delivering on their raison d'etre or was every s…

Yet, all major OSes were human lives are at risk are microkernels, go figure.

Eh, stuff like older vxworks plays loose and fast with the term microkernel that wouldn't fly today. I don't even think they try to claim that it is one anymore until their most recent release where they actually added (optional) process isolation.
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