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CD Projekt Red is under investigation

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Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're playing on literally the most playable platform there is (the game is even less buggy on Stadia than on latest-gen consoles).

That's very curious given that on Stadia it's a Linux port.

I don't think it's all that surprising:

- The PC version is by far the most playable

- CDPR games haved worked well on Linux through proton in the past

- Stadia targets are very narrow set of hardware and I would assume Google added a couple of patches to make sure it plays well.

You probably still get the logic bugs that you see in all platforms but from everything I have seen it seems like once the games passes a "performance threshold" the graphics hold up pretty well.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#152
Now Morgan Stanley appeared that they already bought over 5% of CDP stocks and I'm waiting for hostile takeover and gamers to cry again - or maybe not cause they are already blinded by their nice beloved corporations - and say goodbye to another independent studio. Well we'll see. Everyone believed that CDP is big studio yet if you see on CP2077 credits most of graphics / QA work was outsourced, 3-4 people were working on AI and only 1 on R&D software. They managed to make game on their own engine and launch it on 5 platforms at the same time that's impressive to me based on number of developers I saw in credits.

At the end it's always people fault. I don't say it's all ok with CP2077 game but people were so much depressed at the end of 2020 that even if this game worked they would be angry cause everyone demanded different things, probably 90% of people who bought the game are happy cause the story is solid and you can go trough story without problems - all major main story related problems were fixed before Christmas. If you focus on dialogues and don't try to destroy city like in GTA the game is great. I see that most of those who are angry wanted GTA in future and are now pissed that they can't play it like GTA and they're trying to make it GTA using various mods. You can just go and see what mods are most popular - those are mods that mimics GTA game. They're probably even not target group of this game and shouldn't play it but they're like junkies and even if you tell them that they don't have to play this game and they can refund they're be angry about it cause they want to play this game how they like it and they want to play it like GTA. That's insanity.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#153
post #2

It seems that everybody seems to hate this game, or rather unfinishedness of it. Meanwhile, I am playing it since 2 weeks on PS4 (not Pro) and totally enjoying every minute it.

IMO the real issue is less that it’s unfinished and more that the product at its best doesn’t seem to live up to its lofty expectations (disclaimer: have not played it and don’t intend to until it goes on sale, just watched others and read a good number of reviews). From what I understand it’s a fairly anodyne action-RPG, with routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character d…

> lofty expectations

Well there's your problem right there - don't accept lofty expectations ever. In terms of games that have been decade defining I can draw two examples: Skyrim and Age of Empires 2 - the first game came out after a real avalanche of negative PR around Oblivion being unfun at a basic level (the leveling system in that game was so horrible) and having the first exploitative DLC (see horse armor)... and the second game was mostly a dark horse that has somehow grown over the past two decades to have an incredibly strong e-sports community.

Don't let yourself have lofty expectations for games - realize that a game costs about six or seven movie tickets and make sure you're not dropping 70$ on a game that you shelve after thirty minutes.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#154
post #43
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tragedy of the commons situation with gamer enthusiasts acting against their own best interest. If people can't delay gratification for something as inconsequential as "non-broken video games", I don't see how any personal responsibility campaign has any chance of working for things impacting society at large such as climate change, overfishing, public health, etc.

I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers. With all of the hyperbole over various games being "broken", most people that are hyped about a specific game are just going to buy it and see for themselves. Unless it's literally unplayable (as may actually have been the case here), most people won't refund it. This has been going on for years and years, it's just getting worse over time. It's always some variant of…

I disagree that this is getting worse. Every game of this magnitude of complexity has shipped broken, even way back in the nineties. The Elder Scrolls series in particular comes to mind. Back then, you'd get patches from print media.

The games that didn't ship broken simply weren't that complex. Console games never were that complex. PC gamers gamers accepted this in order to be able to (sort of) play through an experience that was at the edge of what was possible. There was no Digital Foundry to count pixels and analyze frame drops. If you hit 20FPS most of the time, that was considered "playable".

If a game like Cyberpunk 2077 can't ship broken, then it can't ship at all. It can't even get produced. Nobody is going to put hundreds of millions of dollars on the line to maybe ship next year, forever. Nobody except maybe the Star Citizen community.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#155

Launching on those legacy consoles then was a mistake. As a PC player, I had no issues playing on a 3 year-old machine, it's about as buggy as the average huge RPG game (like Divinity OS, Skyrim, etc.). Then every week or two you get a patch. Baldur's Gate 3 did better PR by releasing an early release version first, so the impatient can jump on it. My personal feeling is there is so much effort put into this game, it…

Which consoles would you have launched it on?

You can't actually launch just for the PS4 Pro or the Xbox One X, you have to support all versions of the PS4 or the Xbox One.

Also the game doesn't run natively on the current gen consoles but through an emulation layer for previous console games.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disclaimer: have not played it > routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character development Come on, man.

Well I've played it and is has routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character development. I was most disappointed that crafting is useless because I wanted to roleplay that skill tree. The game is so boring I've been playing Far Cry instead and Far Cry is trash. Coming from a Deus Ex background there is nothing there to Cyberpunk. However most people liked the game so what'…

Well I've played it and I love it.

I'll agree with parts of what you said. If you want in-depth crafting, this isn't the game. If you want a sandbox, this isn't the game. If you want an immersive sim, this isn't the game.

If you want hacking, this is the game. I don't mean the hacking mini-game, which is still better than most, I mean the fact that every major skill tree can be ruthlessly exploited by learning its rules, and on higher difficulty you're basically forced to do this. Many reviewers call it broken, but the incentive landscape is both steep and similar across different skill trees which makes me think it's intentional. In any case, sniffing through the rulebook looking for exploitables and gleefully exploiting the shit out of them is The Hacking Experience as far as I'm concerned. Doom Eternal wants you to learn quickscopes and weapon-switching, CP2077 wants you to learn RTFM and exponential growth. It's not as visceral and it's much easier to cheat, but if you play it honestly then the thrill is quite comparable when your plan snaps together and you go from "struggling asthmatic" to "cyber-god" or "machete-king" or even "discount doomslayer."

The character writing is on point. CP2077 puts more effort and personality into throwaway characters than most AAAs put into supporting characters, and it really shows in side missions and replays. The Witcher 3 was in its own class for having meaningful side-missions and while CP2077 doesn't exceed it, it's a positive outlier in the right direction. When someone who hasn't played the game calls the side-quests unimaginative, it comes across as lazy and inauthentic virtue signaling. If someone came to that opinion first-hand I'd agree to disagree.

The endings are a highlight. No, they don't have a combinatorial number of AI-written endings that respect every possible permutation of choices, but anyone who expects that in a 2020 game is delusional. In 2020, if you want quality endings you can either have a large number of short endings (Prey) or a small number of fully fleshed out endings. CP2077 does the latter and does it very well. It is now my go-to positive example in that regard, the polar opposite of Mass Effect 3.

On PC, the bugs weren't bad and the graphics were good enough to give me a handful of "ambiance moments."

I enjoyed CP2077 and since I kept my expectations under control that's enough to stop me from going online and flaming it.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#157

I hope this will encourage big studios to stop releasing broken games, but I doubt it will. The incentives are just so broken due to ease of patching, a need/desire for cash after a drawn out dev process, and a general disrespect for their customers. I think releasing a "broken" game in the form of "early access" from smaller studios can be good in terms of iterative and community development, but also that can be ab…

The thing is CD Project Red has released it's games in a really rough state before. All of the Witcher games were brutal on release. But every time they have not only released thousands of bug fixes/improvements for free, but also delivered large dlc/content updates. The difference with CP2077 I believe is that it was just the highest profile launch they have ever had by a wide margin. They are too big now. I don't r…

I don't think the size of CDPR is the reason here. They are public company now. Which means they aren't lying to some potential players, but instead they are lying to the investors.

They made promises about work environment that weren't fulfilled.

They blatantly lied about previous gen consoles performance. PC gamers are used to games not running well, but main appeal is that games usually run within the baseline. CP2077 is unplayable on PS4 and XB1.

CP2077 isn't TW3 level of unfinished. I think CDPR has bitten off more than they can chew.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I saw somebody on Reddit seriously suggesting that Steam should pull the game like Sony did, and it's like, what? I'm starting to think that some major players are capitalizing on the situation by bankrolling marketing and negative PR. CDPR stock has fallen dramatically and now they are facing punitive action from governments that on a level I've never heard of for a game studio. I'm not apologizing for them. They…

> But I'm seeing a bunch of articles about how the number of players one steam has fallen by X% I am part of this group. I think the real reason for the drop off is just that their is not really that much to do in the game. You can 100% the game in 60-80 hours. If you are just trying to finish the main quest lines you can probably do that in about half the time or less if you are really beelining through it. The comb…

I wouldn’t argue with much of this on the face of it but I think people forget that this is a single-player RPG, not some game-as-a-service designed to support an endless grind. The fact that people are working through the content (of which 80+ hours is plenty, IMO) and then setting it aside to wait for DLC is perfectly in line with my expectations of how people engage with a game like this. Maybe they invited the comparison with grindy looter-shooters by having looter-shooter-style loot, but at its heart it really isn’t that kind of game.

Fact is that right now criticism of this game will get engagement, so people are doing it with criticisms that sound spicy regardless of relevance.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#159
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having played Cyberpunk on a PS4 and then a PS5, It is nowhere near what you'd expect from a AAA title in terms of quality. Had to stop playing it because it's not worth it to ruin the experience. I can only imagine what the folks at Rockstar are thinking about this launch and what they can take away from it.

And to have a counterpoint, I'm playing on PC and have a lot of fun. I've seen so far only one bug (Panams phone somehow freezed in mid air during her talking scene) I must say that I'm a bit glad that this time consoles were taken less seriously than a PC, in majority of cases is quite opposite (with a few exceptions like GTA V and CP2077).

You are fortunate. I've encountered at least two dozen different bugs that were only resolved with a reload (or in some cases reverting to a previous save). And the crashes, my god. I would wager at least one crash per hour or two of play.

That being said, I think it's a fantastic game (though somewhat shallow in terms of choice) that I am still having a great time with.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#160
post #131
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good faith question: Is CDPR worse than other games studios, or do they just get more flak because they claimed they were not going to have crunch anymore? I ask because game dev has been famous for crunch for at least the last 15 years.

Generally in Poland Polish companies are the worst employers in terms of using up employees and paying pennies, and also some times hiring on contract which doesn't give employees enough protection (in terms of pension, protection from being fired without severance package etc.) In the middle is government job (like, policeman, teacher, clerk at the government building) - you get poor pay, but you get normal employme…

Most people in the Polish software industry works on B2B contracts, for 30-50% better pay. And we typically don't need employment protection, since there's a line of employers eager to hire us. "Normal employment contracts" are for losers (Ok, they are useful under some very specific circumstances e.g. when you have a newborn baby and need a lot of paid sick leave. Outside of that situation, you're simply leaving money on the table by choosing employment contract).
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