Live data from Hacker News

Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

polandin.com

41–50 of 386 posts

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#41

This looks good at the surface, but given the current Polish government I would not be so sure that it is created with good intentions in mind. Let's wait for how it is applied before deciding if this is a good or a bad thing.

I don't think anybody thinks this has good intentions

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#43

As a country that has suffered the turmoil of both Nazism and Communism, it would be wise to heed their direction. They know the smell of tyranny all too well. The proverbial canary.

They know the smell of tyranny all too well.

Yeah, because they’ve been the ones cooking it up.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/20/world/europe/eu-poland-la...

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#44
post #5

> Under its provisions, social media services will not be allowed to remove content or block accounts if the content on them does not break Polish law. This is kind of insane. So if I offer a free website- a private company operating as I like- I would be forbidden from removing content from my own website that I don't like because the person who wrote it- again, not a paying customer- wants it to be there. Not only…

> This is kind of insane.

It's especially insane because Polish law is not a superset of every other country's law. If a web site is forced to remove content because it violates a law specific to the country the site is based in -- boom, now they've broken the law in Poland.

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#45
post #11

"Under its provisions, social media services will not be allowed to remove content or block accounts if the content on them does not break Polish law." Sooo hop on a topic specific group. Get my off-topic posts removed. Being off-topic is not a crime in Poland. Get my shitposts reinstated. The bill better be more specific than the article is.

I think it would be better if internet went not in the direction of removing stuff but in the direction of providing users with tools to avoid the content they don't wish to engage with.

We shouldn't rely on security through obscurity when it comes to dangerously stupid ideas.

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#46
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that even mean, refusing a ticket? If I refuse a ticket in NL, I will still get the fine-notice in the mail.

you can take the issue to court instead. if you're win, you pay nothing, if you're wrong, you pay the fine and court expenses - or whatever the court finds wrong at the same time. accepting the ticket means basically confessing that you're guilty. the idea is that policemen are wrong sometimes and refusing the ticket gives you an out; it keeps the police honest. with the new law you could in theory get a speeding tic…

If I take the issue to court, I can either prove I didn't do the 'crime', or argue there is insufficient evidence. But police officers testimonies carry a lot of weight, so that is not a fruitful path.

It is still unclear to me what you are exactly saying.

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#47
post #5

> Under its provisions, social media services will not be allowed to remove content or block accounts if the content on them does not break Polish law. This is kind of insane. So if I offer a free website- a private company operating as I like- I would be forbidden from removing content from my own website that I don't like because the person who wrote it- again, not a paying customer- wants it to be there. Not only…

There is a distinction between website and the quoted "social media services".

Really?

What if I have a blog with comments? That is a website that involves social interaction. If I remove a comment on there, that is “removing content”.

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#48
post #5

> Under its provisions, social media services will not be allowed to remove content or block accounts if the content on them does not break Polish law. This is kind of insane. So if I offer a free website- a private company operating as I like- I would be forbidden from removing content from my own website that I don't like because the person who wrote it- again, not a paying customer- wants it to be there. Not only…

Put another way: In the US at least, r/jailbait didn't actually break any laws (well, maybe some individual posts did, but the whole idea of that subreddit was essentially to ogle underage women/children but in a way that was not explicitly illegal). So with something like this law all social media sites would be forced to host the equivalent of r/jailbait.

Re: Poland Justice Minister announces online freedom of speech bill

#49
post #12

Regarding the majority party of the coalition which he is governing with. The party has caused what constitutional law scholar Wojciech Sadurski termed a "constitutional breakdown"[58] by packing the Constitutional Court with its supporters, undermining parliamentary procedure, and reducing the president's and prime minister's offices in favor of power being wielded extra-constitutionally by party leader Jarosław Kac…

This comment misrepresents the situation by failing to indicate that the 'Constitutional Crisis' started before the current Law and Justice government took power by the previous governments anti-constitutional actions of trying to appoint Constitutional Court judges ahead of the end of their terms.

For a summary of events: [1]

Imagine if Barack Obama / George Bush decided to go ahead and punt some SCOTUS members ahead of the end of their terms, because they were afraid they were going to lose his upcoming elections? Imagine what what the consequences would be.

'Law and Justice' , after having won elections came in and did some nasty things (which you point out) and were sanctioned by the EU for it, however, it's hypocritical that the group that initially broke the law on a very fundamental issue were not also sanctioned.

I don't remotely support any of this, but it's important to consider that this didn't just happen out of thin air.

This 'free speech' bill is an interesting political issue, I wonder how much of this is pointed at the local population, or how much of it is trying to obtain some populist goodwill in other EU nations ... or if it's trying to gain some kind of 'moral high ground' leverage in their current 'issues' with the EU.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Polish_Constitutional_Cou...

Post reply on HN