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CD Projekt Red is under investigation

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Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#81

Post by devonkim »

nightski wrote: post #33
chundicus wrote: post #3

I hope this will encourage big studios to stop releasing broken games, but I doubt it will. The incentives are just so broken due to ease of patching, a need/desire for cash after a drawn out dev process, and a general disrespect for their customers. I think releasing a "broken" game in the form of "early access" from smaller studios can be good in terms of iterative and community development, but also that can be ab…

The thing is CD Project Red has released it's games in a really rough state before. All of the Witcher games were brutal on release. But every time they have not only released thousands of bug fixes/improvements for free, but also delivered large dlc/content updates. The difference with CP2077 I believe is that it was just the highest profile launch they have ever had by a wide margin. They are too big now. I don't r…

Yeah, the other situation is that PC players have oftentimes gotten buggy and unplayable ports from consoles for years, and now that a PC first development studio wound up screwing console players first it’s much more visible and the outcry worse. They never launched simultaneously on 9 platforms at a time. Heck, not a lot of titles do that at all that are well established veteran studios across many prior console generations.

CDPR is no saint but compared to the rest of the industry they are relatively. I’m thoroughly enjoying it despite some small bugs here and there but given the massive size of the game and the really ambitious stuff they’ve done in animation it’s amazing what they got done in the time window they had between Witcher 3 and the original launch timeframe.

I hope CDPR learns the right lessons though and focuses upon engineering management and how to rein in their marketing better.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#82

Post by alacombe »

amyjess wrote: post #61
slg wrote: post #7

>If UOKiK finds that CD Projekt Red acting misleadingly ahead of Cyberpunk 2077’s launch, and has not done enough to address the game’s issues, the developer could face a 10 per cent fine of its annual income. I have no idea the merits of this investigation, but it is refreshing to see a potential punishment like this. Fines for bad behavior often end up as simple fees for rich people and businesses. If you want thes…

You might want to look at what happened to Takata. Their defective airbags killed several people, and the end result was that they were forced to pay about 250% of their annual EBIT. It was so much that the company went under. More companies should be punished this way.

It's just a freaking game, for heaven's sake...

By the same standard, Peter Jackson deceived me and stole 9h of my life with the turd which is "The Hobbit".

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#83

Post by boston_clone »

antoniuschan99 wrote: post #80

Reminds me of the quote by Reid Hoffman: “If you aren’t embarrassed by the first version of your product, you shipped too late.” Pretty sure they’re embarrassed by the first version.

I'm very glad that hardware manufacturers often don't seem to take this advice.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#84

Post by lumost »

chundicus wrote: post #3

I hope this will encourage big studios to stop releasing broken games, but I doubt it will. The incentives are just so broken due to ease of patching, a need/desire for cash after a drawn out dev process, and a general disrespect for their customers. I think releasing a "broken" game in the form of "early access" from smaller studios can be good in terms of iterative and community development, but also that can be ab…

I wonder how much of this is broken QA throughout the industry. I burned ~60 hours in cyberpunk on a ps4 pro, the content of the game was fun - but the bugs were pretty dumb. Many of the worst bugs originated in story pathways that would only be triggered if various conditions had occurred (which undoubtedly changed during development).

From a testing perspective It seems like it would require an impossible amount of QA time to vet all of the quest paths as a player, and it would be easy to miss game breaking bugs if QA testers were using manipulated save files. Issues like the bad police AI only crop up once in the main game, but are pretty noticeable throughout free roam.

If players want games to get bigger, will we need smarter and more automated QA tools? what would these look like?

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#85

Post by amyjess »

alacombe wrote: post #82
amyjess wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to look at what happened to Takata. Their defective airbags killed several people, and the end result was that they were forced to pay about 250% of their annual EBIT. It was so much that the company went under. More companies should be punished this way.

It's just a freaking game, for heaven's sake... By the same standard, Peter Jackson deceived me and stole 9h of my life with the turd which is "The Hobbit".

It's not about the game being bad, it's about CDPR lying to their shareholders.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#86

Post by haskellandchill »

jjoonathan wrote: post #60
ojnabieoot wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the real issue is less that it’s unfinished and more that the product at its best doesn’t seem to live up to its lofty expectations (disclaimer: have not played it and don’t intend to until it goes on sale, just watched others and read a good number of reviews). From what I understand it’s a fairly anodyne action-RPG, with routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character d…

> disclaimer: have not played it > routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character development Come on, man.

Well I've played it and is has routine quests, an underwhelming plot, and not too many interesting choices for character development. I was most disappointed that crafting is useless because I wanted to roleplay that skill tree. The game is so boring I've been playing Far Cry instead and Far Cry is trash. Coming from a Deus Ex background there is nothing there to Cyberpunk. However most people liked the game so what's the big deal, it works and the audience is mostly happy.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#88

Post by ethbr0 »

Sodman wrote: post #43
jgust wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a tragedy of the commons situation with gamer enthusiasts acting against their own best interest. If people can't delay gratification for something as inconsequential as "non-broken video games", I don't see how any personal responsibility campaign has any chance of working for things impacting society at large such as climate change, overfishing, public health, etc.

I don't think it's fair to blame this on gamers. With all of the hyperbole over various games being "broken", most people that are hyped about a specific game are just going to buy it and see for themselves. Unless it's literally unplayable (as may actually have been the case here), most people won't refund it. This has been going on for years and years, it's just getting worse over time. It's always some variant of…

> Management: So we ship as planned, and fix the bugs in a patch.

What's curious, and I assume therefore legally-reasoned, is the consistent lack of preparation for blow-back by companies. Some part of CD Projekt Red knew the game was broken on older consoles.

It feels like the only real solution to this is to have legal QA documents, signed off on by QA (as factual) and executive leadership (as read and understood).

If there's a magically missing set of older console tests, someone in leadership goes to jail. If leadership publicly misrepresents the stability of the game despite knowing about substantial defects from QA reports, someone goes to jail.

Who cares about video games, but this is indicative of a broader social problem allowing executives to feign ignorance and create systems that deflect blame downward. Either you're running the company or not. And if you are... then the legal ramifications should ultimately land at your feet.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#89

Post by 2pEXgD0fZ5cF »

krzyk wrote: post #31
enahs-sf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having played Cyberpunk on a PS4 and then a PS5, It is nowhere near what you'd expect from a AAA title in terms of quality. Had to stop playing it because it's not worth it to ruin the experience. I can only imagine what the folks at Rockstar are thinking about this launch and what they can take away from it.

And to have a counterpoint, I'm playing on PC and have a lot of fun. I've seen so far only one bug (Panams phone somehow freezed in mid air during her talking scene) I must say that I'm a bit glad that this time consoles were taken less seriously than a PC, in majority of cases is quite opposite (with a few exceptions like GTA V and CP2077).

I played the game on PC too, and for the first half or so of the game I agree, the first half of the game was more "very very unpolished and rough" as opposed to "broken bugs".

However it got worse and worse the closer I got to the finale, on total I encountered around 10-12 situations that prevented me from continuing and required game restarts and/or loading of older saves, and I had to repeat my final mission 3 times because of a game breaking bug. That is on top of all the minor bugs others have already mentioned.

While I was able to at least get between 50 and 80 fps, the performance was absolutely terrible if I consider my specs (>3500$ PC build).

All in all I was "relatively bug free" compared to the experiences of others. What I don't understand are people saying it would be "a masterpiece" without the bugs, I disagree, the game was very bland in my opinion and I regret my purchase and the time I invested regardless of the bugs and problems. It wasn't TERRIBLE, but I wish I had spent the money on another game.

Re: CD Projekt Red is under investigation

#90

Post by wavefunction »

throw_m239339 wrote: post #21
enraged_camel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, gamers especially are a particularly tough crowd, and quite a few of them have large audiences.

Sony itself removed that game from the playstation store and still has not put it back yet, because it doesn't meet Sony's playstation certification requirements. I don't think 'gamers' are the issue here.

They offered it in their store so it obviously met their certification requirements at one point in the past. Perhaps they don't really have certification requirements...
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