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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#142
post #122
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the EU and have never encountered a carrier locked phone. It's quite an amusing concept, and the first carrier to come up with it must truly have been evil.

I live in the EU too (France), and any phone you buy directly from a carrier (generally heavily discounted, but tied to a more expensive plan) is carrier-locked, and can only be unlocked after a set amount of time has passed, or earlier by paying a fee (regulated by the EU if my memory serves me well). Perhaps it's because I was less financially literate in the past, but I remember that as being the only way in the 2…

Hmm,

in Germany, the Telco's gave up locking the phones in 2017. Because it was to expensive. I can not remember if it was a hard lock - as in any other sim card is blocked or just their additions to the OS. bought a phone in 2017/early 2018 - Xperia 10, where on the boot screen a Deutsche Telekom logo appears but otherwise the OS unaffected by vendor edits/additions. But updates are really slow since they go through Telekom instead of directly from sony which is already slow.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#144
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling locked phones in the UK and EU is already illegal UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54692179 EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Di...

SIM/operator locks have been already rare (in Europe) for a while, and that's great! But there are Android phones that come with bootloader/OS lock, which often means old device is stuck with some ancient OS version (and some bundled bloatware), instead of being able to be reflashed to a recent LineageOS.

Even LineageOS can only help so far. I've got a Galaxy S7 Edge, bought it dec. 2016. It's not even supported by Lineage OS any more.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#145
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling locked phones in the UK and EU is already illegal UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54692179 EU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_Commercial_Practices_Di...

SIM/operator locks have been already rare (in Europe) for a while, and that's great! But there are Android phones that come with bootloader/OS lock, which often means old device is stuck with some ancient OS version (and some bundled bloatware), instead of being able to be reflashed to a recent LineageOS.

Xiaomi's phones are locked like this, requiring a mi account to unlock the device to allow flashing thé device...

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#146
I recently bought a 50€ electric chainsaw at an Aldi discount store in Europe (against my better judgement).

After a few uses, the chain tightening bolt broke into two pieces.

I begged them to send me just the bolt, but NO. They said I'm not entitled to repair it. I was even willing to pay for it, but I couldn't find it below 15€ on the internet.

So I sent the whole chainsaw to the repair service on their dime and they sent me a brand new one. They probably tossed the perfectly fine old chainsaw into the dumpster. Because of a 0.10€ bolt.

The corporate throwaway culture is incredible.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#147

Louis Rossman owns a repair shop in NYC and has been touring the nation lobbying for Right to Repair. He's rarely sees success though because the lobbyists for places like Apple have deep pockets and there isn't a lot of public outrage. The article is wrong to give any credit to Apple for being on the side of Right to Repair, as Louis explains in numerous videos. https://youtu.be/zFA3szW9nWk

The problem here isn't just lobbying but that the people in the government that we entrust to make these decisions are complete idiots. The lobbyists' arguments are so flawed that anyone with half a brain or a bit of common sense should be able to say "hold on, this is bullshit!" and yet these people are swallowing it whole. I'd have more respect for them if they outright turned around and said "yeah we know we're sc…

Well they know corporations are going to be a colossal pain in their ass if they pass something, but that the citizens won't do anything. Might make the local news, but nothing more. If only there was a little enthusiasm in this arena, substantial progress could be made. But there are far too many flashy "causes" out there that eat up the public interest. As a people, we really deserve what we're getting here.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#148

As a someone who goes against anti-right-to-repair laws, I am not so enthused with a mandate that all devices be repairable. Because there maybe cases where devices can’t be repaired. What kind of problems will something like this create for future device manufacturers?

What are those cases? This is just ensuring that consumers have the option to repair so the manufacturers aren’t mandating waste or planned obsolescence

I make a small specialty electronic device that is optimized for size and weight. Its a side hustle, so I do it just to break even.

It consists of three parts: a 2-piece plastic case, and a single circuit board with around 25 smt components. The user can replace the battery.

I'm not going to publish my schematic or board design because I already open sourced my code, and the device is designed to be stupidly easy to manufacture for my own sake. Basically I don't want people to start making their own. A competent EE could figure it out in a day or two, but a anyone with that ability could design their own in the same amount of time.

If something on the board goes bad, I'm not going to offer guidance to repair it. It isn't worth anyone's time. That said, I do offer a lifetime warranty/buyback option since the unit cost is less than $10.

This is a bit of a contrived example since there is literally only one part that can fail, but the point is that there is a very fuzzy line around how far we can go with repairability. Should I be forced to provide a full schematic/board design (giving away my IP essentially)? Should I be forced to provide 'parts' (there is really only one part, and that is the product itself)?

I'm sympathetic to the 'right to repair' movement, but I'm curious how it would be implemented across such a broad spectrum of products. Perhaps it could just be a transparency rule: planned obsolescence (unrepairable) items should be marked as such and an e-waste tax added. If you want to avoid that marking you have to offer to trade broken parts for new for 5 years after first sale at cost.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#149
This is an anecdote but I think it's worth mentioning.

Several years ago my washer dryer unit developed a crack in the wash basin. Instead of buying a new machine, I ordered a replacement basin from GE. When I received the part, it had developed a crack from shipping. I was told to throw the broken replacement part in the trash and they would send me another. This happened two more times. It took four shipments of new wash basins for me to actually repair the machine.

Right to repair is a good thing in and of itself. We shouldn't need to couch pro consumer movements in terms of other good objectives like resource conservation or environmentalism. I understand that my experience is probably not typical, but one screw up like mine basically wiped out any gain conservationist gains for me and several other people. If we want to further conservation and environmental efforts we should do so explicitly rather than achieving half measures on the back of other causes.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#150
post #135

Products are having shorter lifespans with ever decreasing levels of repairability. Like what others have said here, our expectations have become so low that it is commonly expected that the things we buy will only last a year or two before we end up throwing them away. This can be easily resolved if people simply paid more money for better quality products and brands that ensure repairability and longevity. But, of…

How do I as a consumer know if a product will last or not? High price does not automatically signal longevity. The other thing is that nothing lasts forever, so eventually you'd need to repair. Most things you can't repair by yourself, so if the repair costs more than new, and the suggested increase for disposal, I'd still end up buying new to save the hassle. My wishlist is: - For consumers, incentivize repair over…

All good questions. I am not going to pretend I know the answers here. I'll share my thoughts though.

> How do I as a consumer know if a product will last or not?

You, yourself, wont know. Not unless you are an expert on the product, which most people are not. The manufacturer may know what they are selling you is terribly engineered and will break, but you will not. So how can we overcome this imbalance of knowledge? I think the automotive industry is a good example of this being addressed. If I want to buy a car, how do I know that it is going to be reliable? I don't. Even if I were an expert, I don't have the luxury to buy the car, inspect its mechanics, and return it if I don't like it. But yet, even when situated with this predicament, I can still make a well informed decision that will give me a great chance of obtaining a reliable car. Why? It's because there is a plethora of institutions I have access to to evaluate what brand I should go with. The IIHS, NHTSA, Kelly Blue Book, J.D. Power, Edmunds, Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, my local car mechanic, and more. As great as these institutions may be, I believe it only part of the solution. The second is there needs to be a *demand* for reliability. The demand for automotives exists because the price of not having it is costly. Failure can mean major surprise repair bills, a ruined vacation, stranded on the side of the road for hours, etc. Such a price doesn't exist for the failure of my little toaster. But perhaps this can be artificially made with a disposal tax as I suggested in my post.

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