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Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

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Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#41

Post by alxlaz »

mc32 wrote: post #34
alxlaz wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the problem with electronics is often a brand new unit costs less than replacing a faulty part on an old unit due to miniaturization and having everything on chip combined with economics of scale. That's simply because "make it easy to replace" has not been a design constraint in a very long time -- in fact, making things hard to replace or fix has been a design constraint that product management has enforc…

I agree with you; however making things discreet and replaceable will increase costs significantly and slow progress —however, if we consider phones to have reached “good enough” status then that makes sense. Double the price but make it easy to repair or replace components.

> making things discreet and replaceable will increase costs significantly and slow progress

Nobody is asking to split the current, high pin-density SoC into eighty chips with DIP sockets, they're mostly asking for things like:

* Publishing service manuals and schematics

* Making replacement parts available (replacing the SoC isn't that big a deal, the problem is that you often can't get that SoC anywhere)

* Not selling things with an EULA that explicitly prohibits "unauthorized" repairs

"Making things discreet" is pretty much a red herring. Sure, making everything discreet would result in bulkier, pricier, and probably worse phones, but you can massively improve the general public's access to repairs without doing that.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#42

Post by onli »

martinald wrote: post #35
onli wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Repairable hardware is just the one side, security updates needs to be available as well. We need mandated open sourcing of device software (including firmware and drivers + unlocking of the bootloader) after the support timerange, or at the very least alternatively the obligation to continue security updates for decades.

Who is actually going to update this even if it is open source though? There are so many drivers and firmware in a smartphone, nevermind the tens of thousands of models of smartphones out there. It would require an army of people to patch, test and distribute everything. That's even if you can figure out all this code.

We see that happening all the times with devices that are open and popular enough, as much as is possible now. Have a look at the xda forum to see how it is done today.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#43

Post by bengale »

fridek wrote: post #5

I can't describe how much I hope something comes out of it. Not because I have some illusion of this tackling corporate greed, or helping the environment - devices will likely become more expensive and bulkier as a result, supply chain of replacement parts is generating heaps of waste too. I simply am surrounded by tens and hundreds of sort-of-broken devices that don't force me to replace yet, but are not fixable eit…

> there is no light in the fridge (but it still works)

I normally find these types of appliances make parts readily available. I just replaced the locking mechanism on my washing machine for example, it was cheap and easy to order the parts I needed.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#44

Post by rlpb »

recursivedoubts wrote: post #14

A proposal: All durable consumer goods may apply for a repair QR code. At landfills, items with repair QR codes are scanned and the company is charged 50% of the cost of processing the item. If one is not applied for, the producer must pay the full cost of processing the item up front. This would encourage companies to make repair & upgrade and longetivity a priority. It's a rough idea.

How about this, along the same lines:

Manufacturers must pay 100% of the cost of safe, environmental disposal of all consumer goods they sell. This is collected in the form of a tax, for all manufacturers over some threshold sales value/volume, based on an impact assessment of disposal cost. The assessment is based on the typical practical burden to disposal facilities to process each SKU.

There's no need to individually account for every item going into waste disposal facilities. It can be assumed that every item sold will eventually be disposed of. And the problem is in primarily bulk sales of consumer items, so accounting in bulk is fine, and considerably cheaper in processing cost.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#45

Post by magicalhippo »

Just yesterday my SO told me the subwoofer was broken. It's a wireless unit, which pairs with the soundbar, which I got with my TV about 5 years ago.

I quickly come to the conclusion the power supply is broken. And of course the power supply is internal.

I tried to open up the thing, being fairly competent with electronics. But try as I might, I just couldn't figure out how this thing comes apart. I don't want to brute force it, thing is stylish and my SO likes that about it, but also a lot of plastic so easy to break.

Ok, I searched the web for a service manual. Nothing. Not even close.

In contrast, the DVD player my mom uses (mostly as a glorified CD player) died before xmas. It's an old Sony unit, bought in 2000 or 2001, and been on ever since (standby or active). I searched and I found a beautiful service manual, with detailed schematics and instructions for disassembly and reassembly. Even the PCB itself has lovely markings making it very clear what is going on where.

Quickly discovered the issue in the power supply and ordered some replacement parts (still waiting).

Sure I could probably have found a second-hand DVD player for cheap. But yeah it just seemed so senseless to toss away a perfectly good unit when by all accounts it just needs $3 worth of parts.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#47

Post by khawkins »

Louis Rossman owns a repair shop in NYC and has been touring the nation lobbying for Right to Repair. He's rarely sees success though because the lobbyists for places like Apple have deep pockets and there isn't a lot of public outrage.

The article is wrong to give any credit to Apple for being on the side of Right to Repair, as Louis explains in numerous videos.

https://youtu.be/zFA3szW9nWk

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#48

Post by wombatmobile »

I strongly prefer to repair devices and am reluctant to throw any broken manufactured good out, even when I have poor prospects of repairing them. Instead, I just hold on to them. Phones, stereos, vacuum cleaners, clocks, computers. My shelves are full of broken items, and good intentions, frozen in amber.

Why do I think like this?

I think it is a psychological condition.

It isn't a rational choice. If I apply my educated, articulate self to analysis, I can tell you it's an expression of how I want the world to be, not a realistic evaluation of how modern manufacturing commerce works.

A stereo or an espresso machine that is non-serviceable costs 1/10th as much to buy and performs twice as well as an equivalent device from 50 years ago. The price we pay for that bounty is that 5% of the manufactured items fail early. It costs more to provide repair infrastructure than to run a warranty program, so the dead stuff ends up as waste. I get it.

Still, I don't like waste, and I love repair. My feelings are not economics, they are emotions. And so so they persist. And that's perfectly OK.

Re: Europe Is Guaranteeing Citizens the Right to Repair

#49

Post by joking »

Nice, I broke a mixer cup, and now I had to buy a new mixer with his electronics and motor because there is no way to buy only the cup. My fault for buying a white labeled mixer instead of a recognised brand one, but I don't get why there are so many systems for mixers, there should have a compatible system and mixers and cups should be interchangeable between brands.
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