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FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

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Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#61

Post by ohazi »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #28

How about an FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple (or not really), supported by OSS toolchain and can emulate a RISC-V SoC with performance sufficient to run a fully-functional Linux desktop? I once stumbled upon an article where somebody FPGA-ed (with a much bigger board, I don't insist it has to be this small and simple) a RISC-V system to make a "RISC-V PC" and I'm thinking about getting an FPGA to explore that sin…

"Linux on LiteX-Vexriscv" [1] is a fun way to get started. The readme includes a table of supported boards, as well as the amount of memory and maximum tested clock frequency.

I played with it on an OrangeCrab [2], and was shocked by how easy it was to get it running and by how well it worked despite the slow clock. The FPGA design includes peripherals for GPIO, PWM, serial interfaces, etc., and the kernel includes drivers to talk to them. On the OrangeCrab, everything I thought to try pretty much just worked as expected.

That being said, this is mostly just a fun exercise in SoC building, and isn't going to give you PC-like performance. VexRiscv is small and fast and super configurable, but you're still looking at "high-end microcontroller" rather than "low-end application processor" levels of performance.

[1] https://github.com/litex-hub/linux-on-litex-vexriscv

[2] https://1bitsquared.com/products/orangecrab

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#64

Post by spongeb00b »

numpad0 wrote: post #54
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it run Linux? What comes close to beating the $10 Raspberry Pi Zero W?

Not enough RAM. 640kB is actually enough for anyone as far as scalar variables in a single app are concerned so that’s what these small single task microcontrollers have.

> 640kB is actually enough for anyone

For a minute there I thought you were about to quote a certain Mr Gates...

But I'm now claiming "Mr Gates" to be the name of my first FPGA project

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#65

Post by dancek »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #32
vrangan wrote: post #19

I'm the author of the blog . Not trying to promote myself but since you posted, the v3 of the board is available on the tinyvision.ai and tindie stores. I discontinued v2 as it was a terrible design that I couldn't stand behind. There are many reasons to learn about fpga's. Yes micros have their place as well and are very capable and cheap like the Nxp RT series.

What's the best place to start learning about FPGAs? I've been wanting to dip my toes in, but not sure where to begin.

While it's not about FPGAs, I got started by working through https://www.nand2tetris.org/ . After that I bought an UPduino v2 and started hacking. Of course working on a fantasy CPU and a real FPGA are completely different, but the mindset of how hardware works vs. how software works is very valuable.

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#66

Post by dancek »

webgoat wrote: post #62

Not to snipe this post or anything, but you can get a Xilinx zynq 7000/7010 on Aliexpress for ~$20 right now (likely old bitcoin mining boards being tossed).

More info: https://hackaday.com/2020/12/10/a-xilinx-zynq-linux-fpga-boa...

Exciting times!

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#67

Post by ncmncm »

KMag wrote: post #57
ncmncm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crowd Supply has quite a selection of often astonishingly cheap FPGA prototype boards supported by all Free toolchains. The mother lode of cheap, capable FPGAs seems to be supply chains for makers of TVs.

Is the reason for this that smart TVs need to be able to add real-time video codecs (actually, just the decoders) on a shorter lead time than is possible with ASICs? TVs generally strike me as things where economies of scale make FPGAs look less attractive. Though, I clearly don't know much about the industry.

My interpretation is that they expect to need to add decoders as firmware upgrades after the product ships. It is awkward to have a warehouse full of TVs no one will buy because they don't handle somebody's new AV1 streaming format.

I bet most don't plan to let customers upgrade that way, instead of buying a new TV. I expect they will sell the same hardware with a different model number and just new firmware. They like changing model numbers frequently anyway to frustrate reviewers and people consulting them.

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#68

Post by rcxdude »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #28

How about an FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple (or not really), supported by OSS toolchain and can emulate a RISC-V SoC with performance sufficient to run a fully-functional Linux desktop? I once stumbled upon an article where somebody FPGA-ed (with a much bigger board, I don't insist it has to be this small and simple) a RISC-V system to make a "RISC-V PC" and I'm thinking about getting an FPGA to explore that sin…

Unlikely to be availible. FPGAs are orders of magnitude slower and more expensive than the equivilent hard silicon. You can get the performance at a much higher price (high $100s to low $1000s) or much less performance (maybe you can run linux but it won't be a desktop) for the price.

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#69

Post by DoingIsLearning »

webgoat wrote: post #62

Not to snipe this post or anything, but you can get a Xilinx zynq 7000/7010 on Aliexpress for ~$20 right now (likely old bitcoin mining boards being tossed).

Clearly you haven't had the pleasure of completing any production grade projects using 'Xilinx Vivado', or for an even richer experience they're repackaged Eclipse 'Xilinx SDK'.

I really hope yosys matures and is adopted in large numbers in industry, to become a de-facto gcc equivalent for FPGA compilation. Decoupling FPGA designs from the half-baked tools that vendors push out would be real progress.

Re: FPGA dev board that's cheap, simple and supported by OSS toolchain

#70

Post by mciancia »

sgt wrote: post #63
webgoat wrote: post #62

Not to snipe this post or anything, but you can get a Xilinx zynq 7000/7010 on Aliexpress for ~$20 right now (likely old bitcoin mining boards being tossed).

$50 shipping...

Maybe depends on where you are, but I got this board with shipping to Europe for ~14USD a few weeks ago
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