Live data from Hacker News

YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

businessinsider.com

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#221
post #42
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree lies are bad. But lying is enough to get you banned? All the discussion up to now was "there's no slippery slope, only calls for violence" will get you banned. And now it's slipped to lying will get you banned?

Lying was allowed because it made Google money, and it would have been unqualifiedly allowed until the end of time if it hadn't started getting people killed. Rest assured, though, lying will continue to be allowed except for this one lie for this one moment in time until this blows over. Google will be happy to let any content through as long as it makes money and they can get away with it without facing consequence…

So what is the alternative, do we make all media completely responsible for the content that they carry in the same what that you tube is responsible for removing copywrite content that is posted?

Will this not lead to all posts having to be moderated before being published? Do we really want to go down that path, and the inevitable removal of many open discussion forums that will be unable to effectively moderate content?

This is a very difficult problem but I don't think the solution is to hold hosting organisations either legally or morally responsible for the content they carry.

Where does this leave the voice of minority groups that for some reason are seen as "unacceptable" to the majority of the population?

Should a non-religious voice in a religious society be banned from talking just because they express it would be nice if women could drive cars?

Should we ban the gay person who talks about the shitty treatment they get when trying to get medical treatment just because they live in a primarily heterosexual society.

Should we stop a group organising protests against deaths at official hands just because they are really pissed off and there is some potential that official organisation may react badly to the protest.

Personally I find the language and behaviour of your president and his cronies to be completely unacceptable and frankly unhinged. However would you prefer them standing in public sprouting their rubbish where we can all hear them and point out the ridiculousness of their words, or would you prefer to have them hide away in private, able to say whatever they want with no chance of opposing voice?

I don't really know what the answer to this movement is. I know one of the answers is better education, teaching people critical thinking, but I don't know that this is going to be something that happens quickly. What I do know is that you can never win somebody to your point of view unless you actually engage with them, rather than just tell them they are wrong and cut them off.

To quote a song that escapes me at the moment, we need to "Keep on Talking"!

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#222
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AWS banning is what really concerns me. It's a clear escalation. First it's the app level (breached by Apple and Google), then the infrastructure level (breached by AWS - although there are alternatives here. Next up is DNS, I guess? And after that, routing. The ultimate Internet Death Penalty.

> Next up is DNS, I guess? And after that, routing. Alternatively (or additionally) they could move the damage from the server side to the client: think OSes and browsers, not to mention hardware. It won't be long before "secure boot" technologies prevent people from installing "extremist" operating systems.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#223
post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe they are doing this because an unprecedented (in the US anyways) social media coordinated mob was perhaps less than a few minutes away from capturing and doing god knows what to the entire line of succession of our government.

The big tech oligarchs couldn't give less of a shit about that.

You have no clue what they care about.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you are ignoring the “why”.

They really aren't. Look at the alternative narratives pushed recently about how all the Founders were raging slavers. Many, in fact, were not, even if some participation in the practice at the time. Look at the pushing of anti-Western intellectualism and rejection of the basic tools of logical reasoning, which trace their roots far back to the Ancient Greeks, for being the "Master's Tools" to ensure supremacy. At th…

They may or may not have a point about whether or not some academic pursuits are fact based.

But their leap to "if X is banned and Y is similar to X and Y isn't banned then X can't be banned" is still wrong because it is not the similarities between X and Y that is causing X to be banned.

It is the fact that X is being used to inspire violent opposition to the government that is the source of the banning.

Or to make it much less abstract:

A bunch of people broke into one of the most important buildings in the US government, killed a police officer and wounded others who were trying to stop them, stole stuff including computers belong to high ranking government officials, broke stuff, humiliated the government, and had every appearance of being willing to cause physical harm to political leaders because of X.

X was supported by social media.

Social media hosts reasonably concluded that the government may cause them to suffer negative consequences if they did not do something to prevent this from happening again.

Because of Y, some people have gotten into fights on the internet and a few individuals have found their employment and social options constrained. The government is not nearly as interested in this.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One would argue that reasonable people be reasonable. Of course, 1% of trump voters may be giving the 99% a bad name.

This is very true. Tens of thousands of Trump supporters showed up to DC this last week, attending one of several fully-legal, fully-permitted protests. Almost all events and participants were peaceful. A few hundred walked into the capitol complex, and I am guessing most did not initially plan to do so but got caught up in the moment, following those in front of them. Of those few hundred, an even smaller group was…

Ding ding ding.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, well, is it possible that a corrupt fascist could ever take control of our government? If yes, it seems like it would be prudent to make sure we had avenues of free speech protected even from monopolies or duopolies that may provide platforms.

So then a government telling companies how to moderate their platforms would stifle free speech?

In the same way designating certain market actors (whether they are private or not) as utilities would stifle their free speech. The best examples would be the telcos, water, electricity and post offices. Regardless of criminal past or ideological stance, these entities must serve all members of society, with the only caveat being on the condition of nominal payment.

This is the turning point where as a society, we need to decide where the new line for utilities needs to be, and what parts of the internet and financial systems are fundamental to maintaining the fabric of society.

What ever we decide at this crossroads, may end up haunting us for a very long time.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's arguably the inverse of this. They're doing it because they don't feel threatened by a Republican administration any more. With or without specific regulation threats the workforces and often also leaders of these companies would have done it years ago.

Democratic members of congress have repeatedly called for the breakup and/or regulation of "big tech", just for different reasons.

As a liberal in big tech, I can assure you the primary motivation is that we are

1. horrified by trump, always have been 2. aren't concerned that trump will unilaterally end our business if we oppose him anymore 3. are extremely concerned about american democracy and our lives, given the way trump has convinced almost half the country that the election was rigged, which has encouraged them to almost kill an entire branch of our government

AND BEAT ONE POLICE OFFICER TO DEATH WITH AN AMERICAN FLAG WHILE CHANTING THE MUTATIONAL ANTHEM

we in big tech are not robots, sir.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#228
post #21

The lies are 100% of the reason the capital riot happened, so yes, they do need to stop. Fox News lies every single day. What do we expect from a population of people that only hear these lies, day in and day out? They're going to react just like they did on 1/6.

Both sides have media working for them. Both are bias.

https://www.allsides.com/media-bias/media-bias-ratings

The issue is people only ever consuming one side.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#229
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you truly believe that DC was BURNING, then I think you have fallen prey to those lies.

If you truly think a mass of armed people stormed the capitol then you too have fallen prey to lies. What I’m saying is both actions didn’t end with a good look and they both should be condemned Edit: I seemed to have touched a nerve. I was rewatching video from people storming the capitol. They were not armed and they were all milling about without a plan. Even the lady that was shot was unarmed Edit2: I think we ar…

I watched armed people storm the capitol with my eyes, as did many millions of Americans glued to their TVs and monitors that day.

Re: YouTube bans Steve Bannon's podcast channel

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue the reason these type of people are pissed off is because they have been incessantly attacked for 4 plus years while watching the media turn a blind eye to anything that disparages any minority or "protected class." We spent 10 MONTHS watching riots every day. DC was BURNING in July.

No, they're pissed off due to whatever in their psychology. However, they're choosing to resort to violence due to lies being spread by Fox News et al. Other people were rioting due to truth about police actions. While all rioting is to be condemned, there isn't some symmetry between a scenario driven by lies and one driven by truth.

As Chomsky[0] I think rightly points out, the suffering and grievances of trump supporters is real, but unfortunately they are unable to correctly identify the cause of their suffering. Evidence seems to support this as deaths of despair have been climbing over the past few decades[1]. This is something I rarely see mentioned in left news outlets, instead we are told trump supporters are only motivated by racial hatred.

[0] https://youtu.be/lJ84xM8YPpw?t=271

[1] https://i.imgur.com/ceAwn59_d.webp?maxwidth=1520&fidelity=gr...

Post reply on HN