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Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

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Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#121

Post by TingPing »

ars wrote: post #116
folli wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting slightly fatigued with this point of view ("X is a private company and can do what it wants"). If a company reaches a certain size and has a quasi-monopolistic position so that other people or companies depend on it, it starts to have some degree of responsibility towards society that's beyond value maximization for shareholders.

Does that mean you are against AWS, Google, and Apple shutting down Perler? All of those are large enough, and are quasi-monopolistic to meet your definition.

Other hosts exist. But Apple shouldn't be allowed to prevent sideloading which makes the app store no longer a monopoly.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#122

Post by manigandham »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #107
manigandham wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use American Express or ACH or wire transfers or cash or Paypal/Venmo/Cashapp or bitcoin. As to your other point, an alternative to Twitter was made. Then it was banned by Google and Apple from devices, and then Amazon from computing infrastructure. It's no longer about an alternative of the primary service but all through the stack and that is much more concerning.

In the USA, domestic wire transfers typically US$20. ACH requires that the receiver provides you with their bank account and routing number, which while common in the EU, is extremely unusual and invasive in a US context. You are right that PayPal/Venmo (same company) may be an alternative for now, although they generally end up applying the same restrictions as Visa/MC. American Express ... wow, it's been years sinc…

You're arbitrarily discounting alternatives to fit your narrative. If you think that ACH or Amex is less accessible then that's no different than other networks not having the same scale or distribution as Twitter and Apple. Why is it ok for some but not others when they all technically have alternatives?

Anyways my greater point is that illegal actions should be forwarded to the appropriate state department which can investigate and prosecute with appropriate authority and accountability. Private companies are setting a dangerous precedent, especially as they gain superior scale and then collude at multiple layers against the same organization.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#123

Post by PurpleFoxy »

techdragon wrote: post #84
leetcrew wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can someone ELI5 why Visa/MasterCard is frequently called a duopoly? as someone who mostly uses my amex and discover cards for day-to-day purchases, I don't really understand this. four major processors (two being their own issuers) seems like a decent amount of competition and diversity of offerings.

I’m an Australian and as much as I want an Amex I’d have to change banks to get one, it’s quite rare over here and in a number I’d other countries from what I’ve been told by other people.

From what I have seen, most businesses explicitly refuse to accept it since it charges higher fees than visa and MasterCard

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#124

Post by pdkl95 »

elliekelly wrote: post #94
cathyreisenwitz wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex workers prefer decrim to regulation because regulation ends up creating a white market dominated by a few anti-competitive players and a vast black market with all the existing problems.

Source?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DZfUzxZ2VU

Both the video for interviews and the bibliography links in the description.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#125

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

Anon1096 wrote: post #113
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA, domestic wire transfers typically US$20. ACH requires that the receiver provides you with their bank account and routing number, which while common in the EU, is extremely unusual and invasive in a US context. You are right that PayPal/Venmo (same company) may be an alternative for now, although they generally end up applying the same restrictions as Visa/MC. American Express ... wow, it's been years sinc…

> bank account and routing number, which while common in the EU, is extremely unusual and invasive in a US context So now you're moving the goalposts and saying that it being extremely unusual precludes it as an option? Of course any alternative to the Mastercard/VISA duopoly is going to be unusual. By definition, since they are dominant, any other way of payment will have to be outside the norm. > American Express .…

>So now you're moving the goalposts and saying that it being extremely unusual precludes it as an option

Well, what I should have said was "ACH rarely completes inside 24 hours to a new account", which doesn't move the goalposts.

>(Amex) It does not require going in person at all. You can get qualified for a card online and they'll ship it to you.

Not sure this has anything to do with the ability to pay a 3rd party. They would need to have an Amex merchant account or an equivalent proxy via an intermediate payment processor, and my impression is that when Visa/MC drops you, the 3rd party will too, even if Amex didn't.

> users are absolutely not going to learn how to use Tor just to access a site

Parler had no privacy (and from what I read, very lax security), so I don't think that a Tor-accessed site is a part of the replacement for what they had. They just a hosting site that can run some moderately but not extraordinarily complex backend stack.

The "lack of app" question goes back to a comment I made here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25719115

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#126

Post by PurpleFoxy »

tidepod12 wrote: post #110
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is suggesting to Parler that they build anything like the equivalent of a payment processing network. They just need a hosting service. If they relied heavily on specific services provided by AWS, they would need to either recreate them or reengineer their code to do things differently. These are on an entirely differently level of "just make your own" from "make your own payment network". Unless, that is, the…

When Gab was removed from MC/Visa, plenty of people were indeed saying "MC/Visa are private companies and have no obligation to serve Gab. If Gab wants to accept payments, they can build their own network or use cash/crypto".

So in order to build a controversial but legal social media system you must first build your own hosting company, own payment processor, own debit cards, and own ISP.

I think it’s fair to say you just can’t realistically run a website of the majority of tech corporations are against you.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#127

Post by LatteLazy »

ars wrote: post #116
folli wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm getting slightly fatigued with this point of view ("X is a private company and can do what it wants"). If a company reaches a certain size and has a quasi-monopolistic position so that other people or companies depend on it, it starts to have some degree of responsibility towards society that's beyond value maximization for shareholders.

Does that mean you are against AWS, Google, and Apple shutting down Perler? All of those are large enough, and are quasi-monopolistic to meet your definition.

I'm not OP, and I'm not a trumper or Conservative but I am 110% into free speech and I don't like the parler ban.

That said, it's really not equivalent. There are 101 other services if AWS turn you down. You can still access the parler site from an apple/android phone too. On android you can still install the app, just not via the play store.

Censorship is incidious because many people support at least some. So you convince liberals to support banning parler and conservatives to support banning porn payments (or whatever). And they're both poorer for it. We should all be agreeing on this, not being fractional...

We should all be uniting in our call to get Visa , Mastercard, Apple, Google and a dozen others declared utilities. Rather than arguing over which problem is biggest, solve them all.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#128

Post by PurpleFoxy »

adrian_b wrote: post #115
manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

Visa and Mastercard should not do whatever they want, because they are just middlemen in transactions and all their decisions affect their paying customers, much more than themselves. Visa/MC take the money of their customers, who use their cards, by promising to help them pay for anything they want. Visa/MC do not have any right to decide unilaterally what their customers might want to buy (as long as no illegal goo…

As it stands right now they do have the right to do whatever they want. I guess you are proposing that this needs to be changed.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#129

Post by sushid »

LatteLazy wrote: post #119
sweeneyrod wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The porn that has existed since the dawn of time (I guess cave paintings) is qualitatively different from PornHub content. Arguably even there is even a qualitative difference from the situation even 15 years ago. Then, very few 10-year-olds would have had access to unlimited amounts of high definition hardcore porn; now probably the majority in developed countries can.

200 years ago, those 10 year olds would have seen their parents at it pretty regularly. 2000 years ago, they'd have seen everyone in the tribe with their partners.

Are you sure about that? Your claim is that folks during the Enlightenment just regularly wanted into their parents having sex. And moreover you're equating porn to walking in your parents.

And you're saying people in ancient Rome saw everyone in their "tribe" going at it? You do realize that humans weren't cavemen 2000 years ago, right? Ancient Rome/China/etc. had prostitutes and brothels 2000 years ago.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#130

Post by ksec »

leetcrew wrote: post #64
occamrazor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android/iOS is a duopoly as pervasive as Visa/MasterCard. The ither examples only to a much lesser degree.

can someone ELI5 why Visa/MasterCard is frequently called a duopoly? as someone who mostly uses my amex and discover cards for day-to-day purchases, I don't really understand this. four major processors (two being their own issuers) seems like a decent amount of competition and diversity of offerings.

1. If you look into Credit Card World Wide, Amex and Discover Cards aren't even viable outside US.

2. If you look at transaction, Amex and Discover may have higher processed transaction value of something like 15% in US. But if you look at transition volume, Visa / Master are 90%+.

3. Both are Credit Card only. Debit Card is where the majority are using for Payment.

3. Consider there are no other electronic / digital payment method that is as ubiquitous as Visa / Master payment network ( ignoring Asia ) and they are the baseline method for e-payment, as well as an extreme high level barrier of Entry. The two are considered as Duopoly.

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