Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 175 posts

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#81

Post by AnthonyMouse »

marcinzm wrote: post #35
bassman9000 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would really be ideal if some of these sex workers could get their own platform. Then they'll go after the platform infrastructure (AWS), or any other fundamental aspect. Peer pressure. We've been warning for ages: the Cancel Everyone game the NYT and others with very loud voices are playing is a dangerous one.

OnlyFans seems to be having no issues. I do find it funny how "this site is filled with a lot of rape and child porn" is being framed as "it's being cancelled for no reason." No, there is a reason and other sites with better policies aren't being targeted.

> I do find it funny how "this site is filled with a lot of rape and child porn" is being framed as "it's being cancelled for no reason."

It's because this is the wrong way to deal with that issue.

The fairly obviously correct way to do it is that you have law enforcement investigate instances of child pornography, arrest the creators for it, and then issue a court order to the hosting sites to remove the specific instances that they've found.

The content gets removed. The correct people to go jail. If there was a mistake, the site and the uploader have standing to challenge the order.

Who ever thought it was a good idea to turn websites into the police? It's not their job, they're bad at it, don't do that.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#82

Post by wmf »

manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

The banking/payment industry is acting as a cartel to shut down certain activities. This is what antitrust law is for.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#83

Post by mst »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #8

It would really be ideal if some of these sex workers could get their own platform. Pornhub seems like it was frankly unresponsive on a lot of serious concerns until they were forced to deal with them by the panic articles that went around last month And frankly it seems to me like it's still trivial to go on there and find what seems to me to be a lot of content that has dubious consent or related issues. These perf…

The panic articles were primarily drawing on statistics provided by groups that want to eliminate sex work entirely.

Last thing I saw from sex workers rights groups was roughly "Pornhub are far from perfect, but moderation at scale is hard, and they're actually talking to us and trying to improve, which is far better than most other platforms."

So I suspect what would be ideal, honestly, would be "let the sex workers rights groups lead the way rather than panic articles placed by people who hate sex workers" - and that includes disregarding my opinion just as much as yours ;)

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#84

Post by techdragon »

leetcrew wrote: post #64
occamrazor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android/iOS is a duopoly as pervasive as Visa/MasterCard. The ither examples only to a much lesser degree.

can someone ELI5 why Visa/MasterCard is frequently called a duopoly? as someone who mostly uses my amex and discover cards for day-to-day purchases, I don't really understand this. four major processors (two being their own issuers) seems like a decent amount of competition and diversity of offerings.

I’m an Australian and as much as I want an Amex I’d have to change banks to get one, it’s quite rare over here and in a number I’d other countries from what I’ve been told by other people.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#85

Post by manigandham »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46
manigandham wrote: post #11

Similar to the recent actions by Twitter, Google, Apple and Amazon; Visa and Mastercard are private companies and can do whatever they want. Anyone who has an issue with what Visa/MC did must also take issue with the others.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Use American Express or ACH or wire transfers or cash or Paypal/Venmo/Cashapp or bitcoin.

As to your other point, an alternative to Twitter was made. Then it was banned by Google and Apple from devices, and then Amazon from computing infrastructure. It's no longer about an alternative of the primary service but all through the stack and that is much more concerning.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#86

Post by DoreenMichele »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #76
DoreenMichele wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting paid for your work is a form of abuse. None of us can solve all the world's ills and most of us focus on things that hit close to home. Think of all the foundations that have been created because some wealthy celebrity (or a relative of theirs) had a particular medical condition. Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research https://www.michaeljfox.org/ Christopher and Dana Reeve Foundation https://w…

> Think of all the foundations that have been created because some wealthy celebrity (or a relative of theirs) had a particular medical condition. > Michael J. Fox Foundation for Parkinson's Research This is a tangent, but I remember a minor news item of Michael J. Fox appearing in an ad soliciting donations for Parkinson's research, Rush Limbaugh (maybe?) criticizing him for "exaggerating his symptoms" in the ad, an…

Clip of it within another clip of an interview with Michael J. Fox:

ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_fQ3VLSvfI

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#87

Post by [deleted] »

Darmody wrote: post #25
manigandham wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the problem, as stated in the article. It's payments being cut off by card networks.

The article also says the following. Credit card giants Visa, Mastercard and Discover have blocked all payments to Pornhub, after the adult site was accused of being "infested" with child abuse and rape-related videos. So if PH solves that problem I don't see why they couldn't be back in business.

[deleted]

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#88

Post by mst »

Darmody wrote: post #25
manigandham wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the problem, as stated in the article. It's payments being cut off by card networks.

The article also says the following. Credit card giants Visa, Mastercard and Discover have blocked all payments to Pornhub, after the adult site was accused of being "infested" with child abuse and rape-related videos. So if PH solves that problem I don't see why they couldn't be back in business.

However, the accusations were made by anti-sex-work groups, not anybody who genuinely cares about the performers' safety or livelihoods.

It's generally advisable in cases like this to go find what the sex workers rights advocacy organisations are saying, because mainstream reporting is often puritan trash.

(also, so long as the performers were well compensated, I don't honestly see why we should care about "rape-related" given e.g. 50 Shades of Grey was very much 'written porn for women' and while I don't understand that particular kink I'm unwilling to judge what people want to fap/schlick to)

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#89

Post by thaumasiotes »

paulgb wrote: post #28
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

> "There's not a lot you can do about it, which makes you feel really helpless. I have friends who are considering leaving the business as a whole, just because Pornhub was such a big source of income." I would guess for at least some of the public, sex workers leaving the business would be seen as a feature rather than a bug.

One of the performers quoted summed it up well in the article: > "The real target of these groups is not to help victims or fight illegal content on the internet, but to ban all forms of adult material." A few years ago I was doing some research to figure out how I felt about SESTA/FOSTA, and one of the things I quickly came to realize is that a lot of groups and politicians who are ostensibly anti-trafficking are ac…

It's not really a secret. Even when actual "trafficking" charges get filed in court, the most common type is prosecuting a woman for trafficking herself.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#90

Post by mst »

paulgb wrote: post #28
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

> "There's not a lot you can do about it, which makes you feel really helpless. I have friends who are considering leaving the business as a whole, just because Pornhub was such a big source of income." I would guess for at least some of the public, sex workers leaving the business would be seen as a feature rather than a bug.

One of the performers quoted summed it up well in the article: > "The real target of these groups is not to help victims or fight illegal content on the internet, but to ban all forms of adult material." A few years ago I was doing some research to figure out how I felt about SESTA/FOSTA, and one of the things I quickly came to realize is that a lot of groups and politicians who are ostensibly anti-trafficking are ac…

On top of that, anti-trafficking NGOs tend to be unnecessarily friendly with law enforcement groups and both get more funding by exaggerating the problem.
Post reply on HN