Live data from Hacker News

Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

cabal.chat

181–190 of 337 posts

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#181

It’s incredibly disheartening to see how quickly people are warming to the practice of coordinated top-down gagging of certain individuals and groups. You won’t be so happy to cheer on such behavior and policies when in the future the one silenced turns out to be you. The power to censor should be given solely to the individual to curate their own information diet; it should never belong to the medium itself (whether…

I used to think that way until I learned about the illusory truth effect, which basically states that being exposed to information multiple times makes you more likely to believe it to be true. The consequence of this is that attempting to curate information might "infect" you with ideas that you never wanted in your brain in the first place.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#182
post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trump never called for any violence. However there are lots of left wing people on Twitter calling for violence and the left-wing operated BigTech think that's just fine, while they will ban any right wing person at the drop of a hat for completely made-up reasons like saying something wrong about gender pronouns. Look the Joe Rogan podcast with Tim Pool and Jack Dorsey, and try to educate yourself.

>Trump never called for any violence Alright, so finally after a few seemingly innocuous arguments you took your mask off. A person who believes storming the Capitol was not organized by Trump at this point would be able to find a justification to anything he says or does.

This is an example of black-and-white logic, tribalism, and an inability to comprehend nuance. I can state any number of the 100s of lies and hoaxes told about Trump and the only thing Democrats can hear is a "praise" of Trump, rather than a statement of fact.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The companies are behaving in an un-American manner. Those are transnational private companies. What is stopping others from claiming they have been behaving in an un-Chinese manner or an un-European manner or an un-Russian manner so far? How is a naive notion of nationalism of capital an argument of how such entities should behave when they operate in most recognized nations with different ideological and regulato…

> Those are transnational private companies. If you're going to sell your services and goods here, you need to comport to the cultural norms HERE. > What is stopping others from claiming they have been behaving in an un-Chinese manner or an un-European manner or an un-Russian manner so far? Nothing. > How is a naive notion of nationalism of capital an argument of how such entities should behave when they operate in m…

> If you're going to sell your services and goods here, you need to comport to the cultural norms HERE.

They are also selling their services and goods there so:

> They can and do change business practices to fit the region.

They have and do change their practices to fit the global region they operate in so the "un-american" critique would be moot.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#185
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you broke the TOS of your water company, would it be acceptable for them to cut the water connection to your house? I mean if you don't like it, you could always just go pick up your own water...or install underground pipes to a local water source.

What kind of analogy is that? Tweets vs. water? Also, yes, you would not be provided water/electricity/cable/internet/pudding if you broke their terms of service. Apart from not paying your bill and perhaps willful destruction of their equipment, I'm having a hard time trying to come up with how else one breaks the terms of service for utility services. That sounds completely normal to me. Additionally, people do go…

Well if big companies get to just set arbitrary rules that discriminate against one set of political beliefs, what does that say about "Civil Rights" then? I guess you're not a big fan of civil rights...

Or, more likely, is it only when companies are doing things you agree with that you'll claim they have absolute power and authority? If you understand history, you might see the flaw in this logic.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#186

Network connections are getting faster... Peoples typing/reading speeds are not... One day it will be feasible for someone's phone to receive all messages sent by every other person on earth. They can then try to decode every message till they find one that their private key can decode. You've now made the perfect privacy messaging system - by sending all messages to all users, no quantity of network packet sniffing/…

You may find https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_station interesting.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#187
post #116
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you broke the TOS of your water company, would it be acceptable for them to cut the water connection to your house? I mean if you don't like it, you could always just go pick up your own water...or install underground pipes to a local water source.

Having your message broadcasted through Twitter is not a human right or essential to your survival. Also, what kind of TOS would a water company have that you can break? This example is ridiculous.

The obvious point is that both internet and water are public services, and the minute we let companies start cutting off services for political reasons we no longer have a democracy.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#188

For clarification: The 1st amendment ensures that the government may not stop you from saying what you want. This is a separate issue from private companies removing/banning you. Each company has their own right and freedom to be as dickish as they want with regard to deleting your account etc - but that is not related to the 1st.

I’d like to address this, since it’s a common retort meant to shutdown discussion on censorship. It’s disingenuous , because “First amendment” is so essential to American culture, that it means both the literal First Amendment to the constitution AND more importantly, the American principle of free expression. Ether you are aware that people are appealing to free expression as a principle, or you are unaware that fre…

> So the legal scope of the literal first amendment doesn’t help the discussion on what people and companies should be doing.

If you're going to go down this road, then you must address government compelled speech, and the limits on the control of private property. I've found that the "private corporations are censoring me" crowd, don't want to engage with this obvious outcome, or pay lip service by saying, "Make [insert big tech company here] is a utility!", again without thinking through the implications.

The compelled speech problem is obvious. Give me your car, I want to put a bumper sticker on it. If you don't let me, or you take it off, you're censoring me.

This is an absurd request, it's your car, you can control what goes on it. Same if I demand to have a book club meet in your living room. It's your living room. Just because you invite some people over, doesn't mean that everyone has a right to come in. It's private property, and you can express yourself by who you let in, and who you don't. Twitter, Facebook, etc are no different. They're private property. No one has a right to have an account and demand an audience.

Now let's take the utility argument, since a utility would mean that everyone needs to be allowed right? Well, a utility is a highly regulated government monopoly. These regulations increase the barrier to entry into these spaces, and effectively eliminate all competition. In fact, protected monopoly status is often the trade for utility status.

These concerns of expression versus private property rights are new, they've existed from very beginning. While the prohibitions on government, but not private actions, may sometimes be frustrating, it's a workable, and consistent, solution.

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#189
post #134
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but since the water company is privately owned they can do whatever they please. If you don't like it, you can build your own water company. Thanks! ...now you know how it feels for anyone on the opposite side of your argument.

Nah. The water infrastructure at my home isn't owned by a private company. I live in a state that has this radical policy that water is a human right and should not be commoditized.

On a related note: The Governor of California was cutting off electricity and water to homes for the crime of "peaceful assembly", recently... so it's not just free speech that's under assault, but probably you could say most rights, at this point.

The good ol' democrat mantra: "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Re: Cabal: A peer-to-peer, off-grid, community-first, hackable chat platform

#190

Network connections are getting faster... Peoples typing/reading speeds are not... One day it will be feasible for someone's phone to receive all messages sent by every other person on earth. They can then try to decode every message till they find one that their private key can decode. You've now made the perfect privacy messaging system - by sending all messages to all users, no quantity of network packet sniffing/…

This is exactly how bitmessage worked. The problem was that spammers would be able to flood the network with crap so to counter that it was added that proof of work must be completed to have your message forwarded on. The problem with this is it means you could not send a message from a mobile device because the PoW required was too high.

Also a method to reduce the amount of traffic required was called streams. Instead of reviving all messages, you would be able to know what stream the receiver is on and then the receiver would just listen to all messages on stream 5. This scales up infinitely since you can just balance the network so all streams have hundreds of thousands of users on them.

Post reply on HN