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Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

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Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#111

Post by pritambaral »

yodon wrote: post #46
saagarjha wrote: post #2

I hate to bring out the old “embrace, extend, extinguish” argument, but I honestly can’t think of any other reason for this. Visual Studio Code has gotten really popular lately, but I think very few people realize that many parts of it are closed source. And you can’t take extensions from the Microsoft store and use them in your own editor…this just seems designed to get people to use your editor, give them enough so…

Anytime someone mentions embrace, extend, extinguish, I wonder do they spend their time sitting around in 90's surfer pants listening to Nirvana on their cassette tape player while worrying about nasty things that were said when the protocols for fax machines and VHS players were being designed. Seriously, this was more than 25 years ago. It's like listening to dad jokes or someone genuinely still pissed about the Wr…

Just because something used to happen a long time ago, doesn't mean it can't or isn't happening anymore. Cults, MLMs, and scams in general are older than the 90s and still going strong.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#113

Post by majkinetor »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #97
Closi wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's open source, so the community can maintain and support it if it wants to. Microsoft isn't obligated to maintain and support its old language server in perpetuity. Nor is it obligated to open source it's new language server, which it clearly sees as filled with secret sauce, being best in class and providing a significant competitive advantage that it doesn't want to give away for free to all of it's competi…

That's fine, but then they should please stop acting like they are the second coming of christ for Linux and Open Source. They are misleading their users.

Anybody can act like that. That is called freedom and is not limited to physical people but to corps as well.

You can choose to avoid them, to publish against them, to influence others, to fork it, etc. That is your freedom.

Why are we even talking about this ? Nobody owes you anything and vice-versa.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#114

Post by heavyset_go »

If you're looking for an open source Python language server, check out `python-language-server`[1].

It's released under the MIT license, and works pretty well. While it's maintained by Palantir, it works well for me, so take from that what you will.

[1] https://github.com/palantir/python-language-server

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#115

Post by arcturus17 »

saagarjha wrote: post #2

I hate to bring out the old “embrace, extend, extinguish” argument, but I honestly can’t think of any other reason for this. Visual Studio Code has gotten really popular lately, but I think very few people realize that many parts of it are closed source. And you can’t take extensions from the Microsoft store and use them in your own editor…this just seems designed to get people to use your editor, give them enough so…

Let’s not kid ourselves, most people use Code because it’s free as in free beer, and that’s it.

I personally feel lucky that unlike for categories like web search, social networking or mobile messaging, the IDE market features some reasonably-priced paid alternatives of extremely high quality.

But many people - including some truly outstanding developers - will continue to use VSCode because they believe that free as in free beer is always better, no matter what. There may be privacy violations, a desecration of FOSS ideals, shady business practices - you name it - and they will continue to use it as long as it’s free and the negative externalities are not too bad. I wouldn’t agree, but I do empathize.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#116

Post by majkinetor »

saagarjha wrote: post #89
Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Almost the entire thread seems like a case of "give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand" Microsoft is a profit driven business, it never committed to open-sourcing every piece of software it writes, of course they're trying to somehow make money with VSCode, because it costs money to develop it. If you don't like it choose another one of the billion text editors and IDEs that exist or write a competitive la…

They did here by pushing LSP as a standard. Actually, LSP allows for closed source extensions that are generally useful: they have specially prevented that from happening here. There may be the usual “but it’s not open source” complaints here if they did that, but I suspect that people were mostly interested in the source so they could build their own version that they could use elsewhere more than that they actually…

I am glad they did. LSP is eons better then stuff we had before.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#117

Post by HideousKojima »

apetrovic wrote: post #53
agrue wrote: post #31

Microsoft is pro open source when it suits them. If there were in it for the long haul we would see things like Office for linux. Instead we see WSL. One or two CEO changes and they'll be back to litigation for patent infringement.

What you think would be the cost for porting and supporting Office to Linux? And how many Linux users would pay for desktop Office, either Office 365 subscription or one-time purchase? They're not charity. They have right to do whatever they want with their source.

>They're not charity. They have right to do whatever they want with their source.

Copyright is a government granted monopoly on intellectual property, not an inherent right. What needs to happen is extreme reform (or outright abolishment) of copyright. Though that's basically a pipe dream right now

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#118

Post by skeletonjelly »

Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Almost the entire thread seems like a case of "give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand" Microsoft is a profit driven business, it never committed to open-sourcing every piece of software it writes, of course they're trying to somehow make money with VSCode, because it costs money to develop it. If you don't like it choose another one of the billion text editors and IDEs that exist or write a competitive la…

I thought the new monetisation ideology of New Microsoft was "push to Azure", and that they don't necessarily have to monetise specific products as long as you're kept in the ecosystem whose funnel is the aforementioned. Thoughts?

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#119

Post by g9yuayon »

pritambaral wrote: post #73
g9yuayon wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese has a saying, which I don't know how to translate: 升米恩，斗米仇。It roughly means that you give a starving man a bowl of rice, he will be grateful; if you continue to give the same man a bag of rice for him to live better, he will hate you for not giving enough. It rings very true.

Except that's NOT how FOSS works. This whole "Free as in Beer" vs "Free as in Speech" debate is really old now, and the rhetoric that FOSS users/supporters are just freeloaders mooching off of work done by others is grossly outdated.

Does FOSS mandate that anything and everything must be open sourced? Richard Stallman holds this belief that all software should be free as in speech, but is such belief universally held? Or simply put, did MS violate any license at all?

And no, I didn't imply that FOSS supporters are freeloaders in any way. You got that impression probably because of loss in translation. Rather, people who criticize MS for not open sourcing a specific piece of software are moral crusaders, trying to force a company or anyone to totally comply with their moral standard.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#120

Post by HideousKojima »

jcelerier wrote: post #87

I still don't understand how they can get away with this given that VSCode is based on Blink which is LGPL

LGPL means only the library itself has to be open source, any other libraries or software that make use of the LGPL'D library can be closed.
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