Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#41

Post by oneplane » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:41 PM UTC

immigrantsheep wrote: post #14

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why you're being downvoted. People pay for IDEs all the time since it benefits their productivity but seem to have a problem when Microsoft release free proprietary tools. Maybe someone can explain what the issue is because I don't see it.

Because it's Microsoft so people here are always looking for problems. I never seen anyone mentioning that XCode isn't open source. Or Sublime Text for that matter.

That's because those never were open source. Microsoft presented an open source editor, and an open source python language server, and an open source python checker, and then wants to replace those with closed source versions that you're not allowed to run anywhere else anymore.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#42

Post by saagarjha » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

addicted wrote: post #22

saagarjha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that’s exactly what I was confused about before myself! I was using some other Python language server, but it seemed a bit slow so I asked around for suggestions and got this recommended to me. Of course I assumed that I would be able to use Microsoft’s implementation in my preferred editor, Sublime Text, since that was the whole point behind LSP…but it turns out that no, you can’t. You can download it from the…

That’s not the whole point of the LSP. The whole point of the LSP is that for people who want to create an IDE agnostic language server, they can do so. But if MS wants to create a VS Code specific language server, just because they are using LSP doesn’t mean they should be required to support it on other IDEs as well.

Why is Microsoft using and a protocol that they designed and pushed for IDE agnostic language intelligence for…not that? Also, note this isn’t about “support” but intentionally preventing its use. Many third-party language servers only “support” Visual Studio Code but by the magic of LSP work in other editors that the original author may not have even heard of before. But this one can’t do that.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#43

Post by owl57 » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:42 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #9

voxl wrote: post #5

God forbid developers and companies try to make money off their work!

Don't know why you're being downvoted. People pay for IDEs all the time since it benefits their productivity but seem to have a problem when Microsoft release free proprietary tools. Maybe someone can explain what the issue is because I don't see it.

Note that people didn't have any (new) problem with free proprietary edition of Visual Studio. VS Code is different because it's aimed at displacing free tools and marketed with misleading "open source" messages.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#44

Post by wrzuteczka » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

dimensi0nal wrote: post #17

Jonnax wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Microsoft disallow people from using the Microsoft marketplace for VS code extensions in their own editors? Because I notice on Edge, if I visit the chrome store, it gives me an option to install extensions from there.

Yep. It's the same tactic Signal uses - sure, you can fork it, but the fork can't legally use their servers.

Yeah, but I think the largest benefit of Signal’s Open Source model is something different - it’s that their security claims are verifiable.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#45

Post by dgellow » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

Not sure what’s the issue here. If they don’t feel like open sourcing this specific piece of software, that’s their right. They are already one of the largest contributor of open source software in the world.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#46

Post by yodon » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:43 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #2

I hate to bring out the old “embrace, extend, extinguish” argument, but I honestly can’t think of any other reason for this. Visual Studio Code has gotten really popular lately, but I think very few people realize that many parts of it are closed source. And you can’t take extensions from the Microsoft store and use them in your own editor…this just seems designed to get people to use your editor, give them enough so…

Anytime someone mentions embrace, extend, extinguish, I wonder do they spend their time sitting around in 90's surfer pants listening to Nirvana on their cassette tape player while worrying about nasty things that were said when the protocols for fax machines and VHS players were being designed. Seriously, this was more than 25 years ago. It's like listening to dad jokes or someone genuinely still pissed about the Wright Brother's filing aviation patents.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#47

Post by vijaybritto » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #16

tester756 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" but prevent any other editor from reusing it. That doesn’t sound very open at all."? How so? language server is a standard.

Well, that’s exactly what I was confused about before myself! I was using some other Python language server, but it seemed a bit slow so I asked around for suggestions and got this recommended to me. Of course I assumed that I would be able to use Microsoft’s implementation in my preferred editor, Sublime Text, since that was the whole point behind LSP…but it turns out that no, you can’t. You can download it from the…

Yes it's their code and they can license it to be at least GPL though

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#48

Post by kam » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

Pylance is built on their open source Pyright library, which is also available as a VSCode extension. I'm just using Pyright instead and don't seem to be missing out on anything important.

https://github.com/microsoft/pyright

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#49

Post by g9yuayon » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

hintymad wrote: post #29

So, Microsoft open sourced so many things and "it really hurt" because they didn't choose to open source everything for now? No wonder Olive Cooke chose to kill herself, and few people even showed up at her funeral. She gave almost everything she owned, yet people sent her more than 180 mails everyday, demanding more, scolding her for not giving more. The more generous you are, the more generous you must be, or you'r…

Chinese has a saying, which I don't know how to translate: 升米恩，斗米仇。It roughly means that you give a starving man a bowl of rice, he will be grateful; if you continue to give the same man a bag of rice for him to live better, he will hate you for not giving enough.

It rings very true.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#50

Post by Xavdidtheshadow » Sun, Jan 10, 2021, 8:44 PM UTC

This title is inaccurate.

The language server _is_ open source, and is available here: https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server. This is the default one VSCode ships with.

This issue is filed on Pylance, a new (released June 2020) language server that's currently still in beta (announcement: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas...).

Also, like the contributor notes, a lot of the "secret sauce" in Pylance is part of the open source Pyright typechecker: https://github.com/microsoft/pyright.