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Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

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Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#71

Post by immigrantsheep »

saagarjha wrote: post #58
immigrantsheep wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should they open source everything? I never see anyone complaining how Apple doesn't open source Safari or XCode. I mean there are plenty other totally open source editors out there to choose from.

You can’t push something as a standard, claim that the fact that it is standardized allows for interoperability, benefit from the work other people do to conform to your standard, then prevent your own work from being used by others like you claimed would be possible. Apple sidesteps this issue by rarely promoting standards in the first place.

How is that the standard? You can write you python code in PyCharm with their own set of tools or use vim or emacs with other open source python servers.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#72

Post by saagarjha »

Xavdidtheshadow wrote: post #50

This title is inaccurate. The language server _is_ open source, and is available here: https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server . This is the default one VSCode ships with. This issue is filed on Pylance, a new (released June 2020) language server that's currently still in beta (announcement: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas... ). Also, like the contributor notes, a lot of the "…

I don’t use Visual Studio Code, so take this with a grain of salt, but the person who told me to try this said they were using the old one and switched because they got prompted to do so. So perhaps it is now the default?

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#73

Post by pritambaral »

g9yuayon wrote: post #49
hintymad wrote: post #29

So, Microsoft open sourced so many things and "it really hurt" because they didn't choose to open source everything for now? No wonder Olive Cooke chose to kill herself, and few people even showed up at her funeral. She gave almost everything she owned, yet people sent her more than 180 mails everyday, demanding more, scolding her for not giving more. The more generous you are, the more generous you must be, or you'r…

Chinese has a saying, which I don't know how to translate: 升米恩，斗米仇。It roughly means that you give a starving man a bowl of rice, he will be grateful; if you continue to give the same man a bag of rice for him to live better, he will hate you for not giving enough. It rings very true.

Except that's NOT how FOSS works. This whole "Free as in Beer" vs "Free as in Speech" debate is really old now, and the rhetoric that FOSS users/supporters are just freeloaders mooching off of work done by others is grossly outdated.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#75

Post by ipsum2 »

Xavdidtheshadow wrote: post #50

This title is inaccurate. The language server _is_ open source, and is available here: https://github.com/microsoft/python-language-server . This is the default one VSCode ships with. This issue is filed on Pylance, a new (released June 2020) language server that's currently still in beta (announcement: https://devblogs.microsoft.com/python/announcing-pylance-fas... ). Also, like the contributor notes, a lot of the "…

It's not really inaccurate, because:

> Our long-term plan is to transition our Microsoft Python Language Server users over to Pylance and eventually deprecate and remove the old language server as a supported option.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#76

Post by x0x0 »

saagarjha wrote: post #68
x0x0 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft getting money from things like this is probably, on balance, a good thing. It helps justify resources to build, support, and improve it. Because every year, someone has to justify probably multi-million dollar budget lines for pylance / their python type checker.

That’s the other part I can’t figure out: where can people pay for this?

My guess is that Microsoft really intends their strategy to be the best for developers, and this is justified as part of that support. ie make Windows the best development tool, and dollars will follow. I think it's smart. Building and deploying software on mac or mac/linux docker containers with a linux/docker/aws target certainly has lots of room for improvement, and I'm happy to see someone compete on that.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#77

Post by dschuetz »

TLDR: I am not surprised.

A couple of years ago everybody was over VSC like flies, loving it, because it's open source and runs everywhere. I was in the minority of skeptics who predicted that kind of move.

And now, once again, Microsoft proved that they only care for OSS, and created VSC, because it enabled them to spy on coders and their code to develop proprietary and closed sourced spins for software development product. The OSS community got served. Well done.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#78

Post by saagarjha »

maximilianroos wrote: post #51

Why are people so much more upset about this relative to MS not open-sourcing their other products? Is it that it's free? If Microsoft _sold_ a more advanced Python LSP, would that receive as many complaints?

Personally, I am more upset that they don’t allow it to be used elsewhere than it being closed source.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#79

Post by SquareWheel »

Barrin92 wrote: post #39

Almost the entire thread seems like a case of "give them a finger and they'll take the whole hand" Microsoft is a profit driven business, it never committed to open-sourcing every piece of software it writes, of course they're trying to somehow make money with VSCode, because it costs money to develop it. If you don't like it choose another one of the billion text editors and IDEs that exist or write a competitive la…

Agreed. Microsoft has released tons of open-source work. They're not obligated to do so for every product they develop.

There's likely more complex licensing restrictions on some of their products. They even allude to this in their answer.

Re: Microsoft Refuses to Open Source VSCode Python Language Server

#80

Post by ithrow »

ipsum2 wrote: post #7

In addition, Microsoft refuses to open source their remote VS Code implementation: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-remote-release See issue: https://github.com/microsoft/vscode-remote-release/issues/17...

That extension is a competitive advantage that's crippling Jetbrains. Just business as usual.
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