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Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

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Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#101

Post by yarcob »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #81
marcinzm wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OnlyFans seems to be having no issues. I do find it funny how "this site is filled with a lot of rape and child porn" is being framed as "it's being cancelled for no reason." No, there is a reason and other sites with better policies aren't being targeted.

> I do find it funny how "this site is filled with a lot of rape and child porn" is being framed as "it's being cancelled for no reason." It's because this is the wrong way to deal with that issue. The fairly obviously correct way to do it is that you have law enforcement investigate instances of child pornography, arrest the creators for it, and then issue a court order to the hosting sites to remove the specific in…

According to the NY Times article, what you suggest is exactly what people have tried to do.

However, according to the article, it was really hard to get Pornhub to remove illegal videos. And since videos could be downloaded and uploaded by anyone, removed videos quickly showed up on the website again and again.

Sex abuse victims have been fighting for years to keep their videos off Pornhub, yet they show up again and again.

Pornhub is the only one making money from the videos, so I do think it's their job to keep rape videos off the site. The police can't spend all their time making sure no anonymous users reupload illegal videos again and again.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#102

Post by xirbeosbwo1234 »

xg15 wrote: post #51

I'm really glad that no one in this subthread proposed anything involving a blockchain.

I find that surprising. I think cryptocurrencies are the worst technology known to man, but avoiding censorship is what they are built for and their only legitimate use case.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#103

Post by x86_64Ubuntu »

Darmody wrote: post #25
manigandham wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the problem, as stated in the article. It's payments being cut off by card networks.

The article also says the following. Credit card giants Visa, Mastercard and Discover have blocked all payments to Pornhub, after the adult site was accused of being "infested" with child abuse and rape-related videos. So if PH solves that problem I don't see why they couldn't be back in business.

The cat-and-mouse game between adult industry workers and the credit card industry is legendary. Credit card processors have never been kind to that industry, and once they find a reason to kick someone to the curb it stays that way.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#104

Post by antisthenes »

I'm surprised no one's mentioned platforms like OnlyFans so far.

That's the path forward for adult entertainment content (among other content). It puts the power back in the hands of content creators, and removes a lot of avenues for exploitation.

As long as VISA/MC don't do the same thing there, of course.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#105

Post by Daho0n »

marcinzm wrote: post #38
bjeds wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[delete]

>No, no it's not. Seriously, browse PornHub's recommended videos in incognito mode. Go through a few pages. Click into a few categories. Don't even do weird searches, just go through what it recommends. I found some of what it promoted disturbing to be honest.

Disturbing !== illegal.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#106

Post by watwut »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

How do you ensure that the person performing sex work is being compensated for sex work, versus some form of exploitation (whether that's the platform or an individual exploiting)? A sex worker union [1] who can negotiate with distribution companies and platforms, lobby legislators and payment facilitators (who should not be prohibiting payments for legal business transactions), and ensure quality working conditions…

The easier for them to press charges when mistreated, the more control they have over places and customers, the safer they are.

E.g. abilities like hiring bodygourds, platforms that allow them to vet customers etc.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#107

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

manigandham wrote: post #85
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Use American Express or ACH or wire transfers or cash or Paypal/Venmo/Cashapp or bitcoin. As to your other point, an alternative to Twitter was made. Then it was banned by Google and Apple from devices, and then Amazon from computing infrastructure. It's no longer about an alternative of the primary service but all through the stack and that is much more concerning.

In the USA, domestic wire transfers typically US$20. ACH requires that the receiver provides you with their bank account and routing number, which while common in the EU, is extremely unusual and invasive in a US context.

You are right that PayPal/Venmo (same company) may be an alternative for now, although they generally end up applying the same restrictions as Visa/MC.

American Express ... wow, it's been years since I did this but I think it involves actually going to an Amex brick-and-mortar location, and so wouldn't actually count.

Bitcoin is equivalent to paying in a different currency, which while possible, mostly breaks the terms of the comparison, since you could argue for using some other non-crypto-currency to avoid some or all of the limitations of Visa/MC.

Parler failed to meets the ToS set by its chosen platform (picked in all likelihood because its founder was ex-AWS). Had it either met the ToS by providing sufficient moderation, or picked a different hosting service, it would have had a different experience.

As I said in my opening comment, if there is really no alternative hosting service where Parler can allow people to openly discuss violence towards specific individuals, violence towards state actors and generally be as obnoxious and wrong as they feel like, then sure, I'd agree there's a problem.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#108

Post by adrian_b »

Darmody wrote: post #25
manigandham wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the problem, as stated in the article. It's payments being cut off by card networks.

The article also says the following. Credit card giants Visa, Mastercard and Discover have blocked all payments to Pornhub, after the adult site was accused of being "infested" with child abuse and rape-related videos. So if PH solves that problem I don't see why they couldn't be back in business.

While I cannot know for sure what Pornhub does, as I have never used it (but I use other sites with erotic content), I have read about the evolution of this case.

It was said that after the accusations have been published, Pornhub has reacted by removing the content that was claimed to include illegal parts and they have changed the rules for using the site (e.g. disabling anonymous uploads and downloads) in order to prevent such cases in the future.

Only after the Pornhub reaction, VISA and MC blocked the payments, at a time when there already was not much more that PH could do, except maybe closing the site completely.

So only Visa and MC can change anything now.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#109

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

tidepod12 wrote: post #74
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm willing to revise my take on the "big tech takedown" when someone explains to me how a random member of the American public can pay a pornographic performer/model without using Visa/Mastercard and in less than 24 hours. If there were no alternatives to Twitter, Android, iOS and AWS then I'd be as unhappy about that as I am about Visa/Mastercard's decision here. However, it's my judgement that there are alternativ…

Then the pornographic performers should just make their own payment network, no? That's what everyone's been telling Parler since they started being removed from these platforms. I also don't know how you can reconcile this comment with the fact that Gab and others were removed from Visa/MC networks, to much fanfare. To be clear, I'm in favor of Parler going away, but I can't help but notice the double standards.

Nobody is suggesting to Parler that they build anything like the equivalent of a payment processing network.

They just need a hosting service. If they relied heavily on specific services provided by AWS, they would need to either recreate them or reengineer their code to do things differently.

These are on an entirely differently level of "just make your own" from "make your own payment network".

Unless, that is, there is no hosting service that will have them (and maybe no colo facility that will allow them presence). If so, then I would view the situations as essentially equivalent.

Re: Sex workers say 'defunding Pornhub' puts their livelihoods at risk

#110

Post by tidepod12 »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #109
tidepod12 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then the pornographic performers should just make their own payment network, no? That's what everyone's been telling Parler since they started being removed from these platforms. I also don't know how you can reconcile this comment with the fact that Gab and others were removed from Visa/MC networks, to much fanfare. To be clear, I'm in favor of Parler going away, but I can't help but notice the double standards.

Nobody is suggesting to Parler that they build anything like the equivalent of a payment processing network. They just need a hosting service. If they relied heavily on specific services provided by AWS, they would need to either recreate them or reengineer their code to do things differently. These are on an entirely differently level of "just make your own" from "make your own payment network". Unless, that is, the…

When Gab was removed from MC/Visa, plenty of people were indeed saying "MC/Visa are private companies and have no obligation to serve Gab. If Gab wants to accept payments, they can build their own network or use cash/crypto".
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