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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#971

Post by Gibbon1 »

strathmeyer wrote: post #460
hilyen wrote: post #109

People don’t seem to understand, censorship is a double edged sword. You never know who will be in charge years from now and will abuse those very same good intentioned laws & we end up a police state.

Content moderation is a form of free speech. A police state is when the state tells you that you have to allow something.

Also point out there is a line where 'free speech' drifts into criminal conspiracy. If a group is using your platform for criminal conspiracy you have an absolute right to kick them off.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#972

Post by cocacola1 »

o_p wrote: post #258
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to skate over the difference between good-faith political debate and bad-faith encouragement of violence and sedition. Diverse dissenting views are fine. Plotting armed violence to overturn a legitimate election result isn't. If the far-right can't operate without plotting armed violence - and there's plenty of evidence it can't - then it puts itself outside the reach of any free speech arguments. Not j…

A for-profit corporation like Apple shouldnt be the arbitrer of what constitutes good-faith and bad-faith political debate

Unless it impacts the bottom line.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#973

Post by cocacola1 »

gwright wrote: post #617
lc9er wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Simply asserting that they are wrong will not change things No one is “simply asserting”. They’ve dragged this to court and had ~60 cases thrown out for a lack of evidence. They’ve made the choice to ignore this and acted out, violently, at the prompting of their favorite social-media driven personalities.

You are too focused on the election. The divisions in the electorate pre-date the election. It should be noted that the vehement disagreement about the election is really centered on just a tiny percentage of the votes in a few swing districts. My point about division is true even if everyone suddenly accepted that the election results were accurate. We need to figure out how to resolve those underlying political dif…

What would you say are the "underlying political differences" here? I'm genuinely curious.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#974

Post by kemitchell »

strathmeyer wrote: post #970
kemitchell wrote: post #761

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested, the relevant search term for United States law is "compelled speech".

I am an old school hacker/programmer and for some reason I can't rise above 300 karma on HN because of how much people hate discussing free speech. In another thread someone called me 'Joseph Stalin' for advocating for free expression.

I ran a Greasemonkey script for several years that removed all karma figures from HN. I don't anymore, but it helped me develop the right mentality early on.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#975

Post by cocacola1 »

BurningFrog wrote: post #207

Of course you can organize serious crimes on Parler. But that's also true of telephony, postal letters and in person conversations. Uncountable murders have been organized through those channels! Does that mean those means of communication should also at least be monitored, and maybe banned outright? If not, what is the difference?

No need for a cleaver when a scalpel will work.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#976

Post by sergiotapia »

alkonaut wrote: post #902
sergiotapia wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I create a platform that only follows US-law and allows everything else, I would: 1. Be deplatformed 2. called a racist 3. called a pedophile 4. have my life threatened that's the state of politics in this country. Thank you Media. We need something decentralized and bullet-proof. Enough of these charlatans.

You’d be accused of creating a platform for nazis and pedophiles unless you remove that content. And rightly so. Allowing everything isn’t a shield from that accusation, nor should it be. Good faith moderation is. Since there are platforms without that content, the effect of starting a new platform allowing it is that you get a disproportionate amount of the most extreme content. You become the gab or parler or t_d.w…

>You’d be accused of creating a platform for nazis and pedophiles unless you remove that content. And rightly so.

I don't agree with this at all. You realize 70+ million people are not nazis, right? They're normal people like you or me who's voice just happens to not be amplified by the media/movies.

Platform would ideally provide controls for you to hide things you don't want to see. Hide nazis, hide perverts, hide furries, hide gun nuts, hide whatever you want to hide.

This is the future and what we should be aiming for.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#977

Post by trianglem »

briandear wrote: post #959
trianglem wrote: post #950

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism, sexism, belief in science are things that are not going to be negotiated on. The other side are literal intolerant fascists and should be silenced. Let’s the chips fall where they may, even if that’s some sort of civil conflict.

“Belief in science?” Then why are California schools still closed? The left is just as guilty are the right in not following science.

...because of coronavirus? Do you live under a rock?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#978

Post by MarkMc »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

That's a fair point, but I think it depends on whether someone is clearly inciting violence. In the case of Trump's Twitter ban I would agree with you - it will enrage Trump supporters and cause them to disengage from constructive debate. And Trump's tweets aren't really examples of 'inciting violence'.

But in this case some Parler users are saying, "They should have burnt down Nanci Pelosi's house with her inside" and "That cop should have been shot and bleed out". This is clearly encouraging acts of violence, and the costs of giving such people a megaphone outweigh the benefits of engaged debate. So Apple is right to insist that Parler moderate such speech.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#979

Post by dogwhistle111 »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #908
TheGRS wrote: post #834

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the main argument this group was making for the last 2 months was to disenfranchise much of the US voting population. The people voted, and this group attempted to say it wasn't legitimate. They proved nothing in court to their claims, but persisted anyway right up until they got worked up into a frenzy and stormed the Capitol.

Voter ID, removal of hackable voting machines, and hand count of votes are not disenfranchisement. You may have been told by the media that it is, but it's not. Many advanced democracies have such things in place.

They have hand counted in Georgia, turning up results that matched the machine count. Did that stop the machine conspiracy theory? Nope.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#980

Post by dogwhistle111 »

Proziam wrote: post #815
nicbou wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that is what reddit, twitter and Hacker News reinforce constantly. It's either because it's true, or because the other side has been repeatedly discouraged from adding their two cents in those communities. I've been seeing the world through this lens for so long that I can't tell. I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. It seems much more likely that I…

> I find it somewhat implausible that half the population is dumb, racist and all those other labels. The reality is that most Trump supporters are focused on economics and governmental overreach, not race. They are angry that businesses are shut down, and people are unemployed. They are angry that, over the past several decades, production in this country has dropped to near-nonexistence. They are angry that the loc…

Fair. It worth pointing out the 'stimulus' bill included next years government budget as well. So its not as simple as taking 2700 and giving 600 back. Most years they'd be taking 2100 and give nothing back. This year they decided to take 2100, borrow 600 from the central bank, and giving that 600 back
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