Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#651

Post by selfishgene » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

caconym_ wrote: post #191

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

Wasn't there an insurrection involved in the American Revolution?

And just think, we celebrate that one every July 4!

Sometimes working toward "the greater good of society" requires violence.

Therefore the real issue here is not the violence but rather the "misinformation" ... both in the form of dubious claims about election fraud as well as the attempt by powerful technology elites to silence the misinformed by de-platforming them instead of "federating" the flow of information through technologies like Mastodon that respect their users' freedom.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#652

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

nnspired wrote: post #535

Quinner wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Five years ago civil society was in general agreement that racism was bad and that we should respect the democratic process instead of seeking to violently overthrow it. Of course there were people who disagreed but they were at the margins and their voices were isolated to a few forums most people never heard of. A demagogue came along and used mass media platforms to destabilize the norms of civil society and give…

There is no going back. It is because the “winning” side is actively doing their best to demonize everyone who doesn’t fit into their mold. So much for reconciling differences.

Republicans will take back both houses of Congress in two years. So, the overblown rhetoric that Democrats have to stage in order to hide the fact that they are basically Republican by most policy measures ("why don't we have affordable healthcare like other nations have, especially in a pandemic?" "Because fasciststs!1!") only has to last until then.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#653

Post by gamblor956 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

andybak wrote: post #636

snowflake_ptr wrote: post #611

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seven people died in a single weekend of BLM riots[1], which happened throughout all of 2020 . That was also terrorism, yet no social media company deplatformed any Antifa- or BLM-related group. [1] https://www.insider.com/multiple-people-shot-dead-kentucky-i...

Were those killed mostly protesters, law enforcement or non-participants? It makes a fairly big difference surely? It's odd that nobody seems to mention that aspect when they bring this up.

None of the people killed were involved in the protests. The shootings simply happened while protests were occurring elsewhere.

The puppet account didn't even bother to read his source; he simply posted it based on the title.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#654

Post by caconym_ » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

drak0n1c wrote: post #616

caconym_ wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I see nothing done except “use tribalism to decide.” I disagree. You don't need tribalism, for instance, to see that somebody spreading lies and conspiracy theories in a transparent attempt to undermine confidence in our elections is going to do an immense amount of damage to the institutions of our democracy if he isn't muzzled. We have to remember that truth is real, that people can act in good faith, and simply…

Who decides what counts as lies and conspiracy theory? What if they decide spreading the attitude that “all cops are bastards” or the notion that police shooting events are mostly motivated by bigotry a conspiracy theory that leads to additional violence and start banning tangential speech?

Lots of lies can't easily be proven false, but many can, as long as we agree on some really basic principles.

For instance, if you tell me that two plus two equals five, I can count out two sets of two coins, then put them all together, count them again, and see that the answer is 4. So in that case I will be confident in calling you a liar.

You could, of course, say I'm wrong.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#655

Post by lr4444lr » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

rootusrootus wrote: post #641

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

I'll be honest -- I haven't really seen any cases where someone was deplatformed for a legitimate political view. By that I mean a viewpoint that is at least tolerant, if nothing else. If the argument against deplatforming is that people should be allowed to heap hatred on gay people or other minorities, then it's not a particularly strong argument. Maybe this is just inherent to a conservative viewpoint, I don't kno…

Were you not here when the James Damore debacle happened? And he was hardly expressing a political PoV, just trying to marshall some data on good faith to respond to his company's solicitation for ideas people had to solve a tough problem.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#656

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:58 AM UTC

caconym_ wrote: post #594

zests wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you decide which of the violent and/or damaging speeches to deplatform? I see nothing done except “use tribalism to decide.”

> I see nothing done except “use tribalism to decide.” I disagree. You don't need tribalism, for instance, to see that somebody spreading lies and conspiracy theories in a transparent attempt to undermine confidence in our elections is going to do an immense amount of damage to the institutions of our democracy if he isn't muzzled. We have to remember that truth is real, that people can act in good faith, and simply…

[deleted]

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#657

Post by jessaustin » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

Asparagirl wrote: post #522

nicbou wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were a fringe movement I'd be inclined to agree, but they're half the voter base. They can't possibly all be violent bigots.

Half of the US fought for the right to own other humans as property. You are very, very sheltered if you think large numbers of people aren't capable of holding terrible ideas and performing horrific acts.

The CSA was certainly not half of the United States at that time. They inflated their numbers with the "3/5 compromise". Even with that method of inflating their representation, 11 states with 66 House Representatives seceded, while 23 states with 173 House Representatives did not secede. It wasn't close to half.

On top of which, the decision process for secession was (shockingly, I know!) not democratic in the least. The Union didn't need a "Home Guard" to enforce conscription, but the South did.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#658

Post by snowflake_ptr » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:59 AM UTC

all_factz wrote: post #579

LetsPlayNice wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your honesty and I will attempt to explain, briefly, so you might understand better. 1. Most people on the right are against abortion for the reason that it is against their particular religion, which declares it as murder and murder is wrong. But, the others don't care at all about a woman's right to choose, they just don't want their tax dollars paying for that choice instead of other things they want.…

But your own post makes clear the problem with your logic. This isn’t about convincing people. It’s about the fact that people’s political views are guided by gut, instinct and the bubbles they’re in instead of by critical thinking. These people believe abortion is killing an innocent baby. They don’t want their tax dollars spent on thing X. They believe the election was rigged — evidence doesn’t come into it. How do…

> the right

> about ANTIFA being behind the attempted coup on Wednesday

You want to provide a source for the claim that the entire republican party (or even a significant fraction of it) either (1) supports this claim in particular or (2) makes up these things on a regular basis, as opposed to a tiny (but extreme) faction, identical to the same distribution on the left?

I've seen people on HN make claims that the Antifa violence during the 2020 riots was just a false-flag operation by the feds - so we know that there are people from the other political party who do exactly the same thing. Where's your evidence that there isn't more of them than people in the first party?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#659

Post by renewiltord » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

I'm not surprised that they're furious. I'm just 50-50 on whether "explode in unpredictable ways" is worse than "spout and promote their blather in predictable ways".

Right now, I'm thinking an occasional bomb planting here and there is better than normalizing the idea that "Famous Jew (((Bernie Sanders))) wants to eat your young" or whatever kooky shit they've come up with.

Yeah, I think I'll take the unpredictable exploding for the moment. It's really not that bad.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#660

Post by tartoran » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 3:00 AM UTC

snowflake_ptr wrote: post #611

gamblor956 wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To follow up on caconym's comment, FBI has confirmed that more than a dozen explosive devices were found at the Capitol after the siege, including pipe bombs left in front of the DNC offices.[1] 5 people died. 50 officers were wounded, some seriously enough that they are still in the hospital. Multiple protestors had zip ties and other means of restraint on them, knives, and guns, and on their social media profiles w…

Seven people died in a single weekend of BLM riots[1], which happened throughout all of 2020 . That was also terrorism, yet no social media company deplatformed any Antifa- or BLM-related group. [1] https://www.insider.com/multiple-people-shot-dead-kentucky-i...

There’s no Antifa platform to be banned and BLM violent speech, if any, is cenored as well. BLM is a movement not a faction. And whatever I saw posted with the hashtag BLM were videos of police deadly violence towards balcks and it hurt me to watch these too as a non-black American. It hurts me that some are indifferent.

I am not idiotically following democratic ideology and am willingly letting anyone get their shot, i’ll listen all sides sides. The problem with these radical people is that they are not making much sense, they seem confused and alienated. If you ask them what they want you don’t get a well shaped idea. Banning them from the table doesn’t seem like a good idea, but what’s the alternative, start believing the parallel reality the live in? It is contagious and dangerous, I lost some elders in my family to this nonesense, it is absolutely saddening and we have to do something about it. Otherwise a large part of humanity is going mad, do we want that? What is your soluion to stopping this mess? Be honest, do you not think at all that Trump stoked chaos during his reign?

I’d like for all of us to take one month off electronic information and start taking informaion directly from our own small envitonment and tune in with nature whenever possible. A break like that would reset things in part. The other part is that we have to put a hand and build the future however we want