FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests • Hacker News Board

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#91

Post by disgrunt » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

dmode wrote: post #21

chiefalchemist wrote: post #15

How convenient. They didn't do their jobs. The DC police didn't do their job. A possible pivotal moment and...nothing? But this is simply coincidence? Some of the "best & brightest" all simultaneously go brain dead? I'm no fan of Trump. But as such facts continue to align my distate for him is overshadowed by my fear of nefarious actors and other suspect agendas.

The nefarious actor is Trump and his cronies who most likely directed Federal agencies not to act. He already paused the National Guard deployment

That really worked out well for him.

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#92

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:21 AM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #51

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #17

I can't help but wonder. Anyone watching the political scene over the past years knew a tipping point is very much at hand. It just was not clear whether it will be BLM, Antifa, Bogaloos, or Trump disciples. The fact that something this big was ignored suggests that it was from beginning seen as not a threat ( Trump being known for 'big talk, no action' ). Alternatively, if one is inclined to think along darker lines…

Your both sides equivocation ignore the fact that only causes cops support are given this treatment.

You may have put words in my mouth. Since you did, allow me to respond:

It is possible. Cops are human too after all. They have their sympathies and whatnot. Note, that the same appears to be true with regards to media and tech. Some groups get special treatment. Some don't.

I am not ignoring it, but I would love if the standard was applied across the board and not just when it fits an argument.

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#93

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #6

Let’s be blunt... because white people. This is the same thing that happened in Charlottesville and the after action review of Charlottesville made that clear. No one listened. The need here isn’t more police or more training or more gear. Any of those things would just be used to harm people of color and low income communities. What needs to happen is people stop being taken in by bad faith arguments about “free spe…

[deleted]

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#94

Post by Animats » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:22 AM UTC

jcranmer wrote: post #47

guscost wrote: post #36

But the police also rejected offers of federal help: https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-reject-federal-hel... Propaganda war to escape the blame, DC municipality against feds? Something else?

The US Capitol Police is a federal agency. The Park Police is another federal police force that has concurrent jurisdiction over the area. DC's police is the Metropolitan Police of DC, which has oversight by the DC municipal authority instead of direct federal authority.

No, the Capitol Police work for Congress, not the Executive Branch. They are not under Trump at all. The Park Police, the FBI, Homeland Security cops, and the military all ultimately report to the President. The District of Columbia has a strange arrangement with its own elected officials and police, but not as much independence as a US state.

This matters during a coup attempt. Note that when the Capitol Police did get backup, it was from the DC police and the Virginia State Troopers. Neither was under Trump's control.

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#95

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:23 AM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #65

PHGamer wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

blame race... ok.. racist! there were black , jew and asian protesters there as well.

1 man is a story, 1000 is a statistic etc. Black people overwhelmingly vote Democratic, doesn't mean they all do.

[deleted]

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#96

Post by jonlucc » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:24 AM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #13

logicslave wrote: post #3

Theres a video of the police letting the protesters into the capitol. They opened the door and are standing to the side EDIT: I urge people to go watch the video. My opinion is that many walking in thought it was a protest and was just something the group was doing.

Which at that point was probably the correct decision. What’s the other option? Get overwhelmed by the crowd or attacked from behind?

I don't know, but the way they casually let them in doesn't look like they're retreating from the position. If they were, why open the barriers? Why wouldn't they just back up from the position to their fallback position as one group?

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#97

Post by jimbob45 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:25 AM UTC

avs733 wrote: post #6

Let’s be blunt... because white people. This is the same thing that happened in Charlottesville and the after action review of Charlottesville made that clear. No one listened. The need here isn’t more police or more training or more gear. Any of those things would just be used to harm people of color and low income communities. What needs to happen is people stop being taken in by bad faith arguments about “free spe…

This is the red scare all over again. “White” people are being targeted and now it’s even okay to remove their freedom of speech because someone has the moral high ground? Would anyone be surprised by a neo-HUAC comprised of Dorsey, Zuck, and Pichai? I’m beginning to think you all want that. I fear for the man who can’t see this as the slippery slope it is.

From my point of view, BLM has bad faith arguments and should be targeted. Perhaps a more neutral strategy should be used?

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#98

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:28 AM UTC

f430 wrote: post #78

avs733 wrote: post #6

Let’s be blunt... because white people. This is the same thing that happened in Charlottesville and the after action review of Charlottesville made that clear. No one listened. The need here isn’t more police or more training or more gear. Any of those things would just be used to harm people of color and low income communities. What needs to happen is people stop being taken in by bad faith arguments about “free spe…

> Let’s be blunt... because white people. No need to make such generalizations. The overwhelming majority of economic damages done in 2020 were by BLM/ANTIFA/ACAB crowd. Many of us supported them initially but when they started attacking minorities in particular Asian Americans and their businesses thats when I stopped. You are destroying your own country by being tricked into hating it by interest groups that isn't…

[deleted]

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#99

Post by wwright » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

disgrunt wrote: post #85

wwright wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there were literally millions of protestors on the streets over the summer, 20 is a pretty tiny number. Multiple people have already died from the DC attacks, just in two days in one city, with a much smaller number of people. That’s just comparing the number of deaths, and putting aside that one was a massive distributed protest of government brutality and the other was an attempted coup.

So five Trump supporters are killed and that's not police brutality? I just want to make sure I got this narrative straight.

Yes, it is also police brutality, that is correct. The people fighting the police (many of whom are police themselves, and whom some police are collaborating with) also just attempted a violent coup. So they all suck. And surprisingly, Donald Trump managed to support all of the ones doing the systematic violence AND the ones attempting violent coups.

So really, yes, it all around sucks, and we need to fix a lot. But some people are clearly hurting more than helping! Maybe when they’re gone, we can finally focus on fixing these longstanding systemic problems rather than arguing about a man-child.

Re: FBI, Homeland Security Int. Didn’t Issue Risk Assessment for ProTrump Protests

#100

Post by conanbatt » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

chrissnell wrote: post #20

A police officer friend with 20 years of crowd control experience told me that the preparations looked criminally negligent. I believe that this was done on purpose with full knowledge that these events were likely to occur. If crowd control and security are your job, there are only two explanations: you are horrible at your job, or, you did this on purpose with bad intentions.

As someone that has experienced a civilian coup in argentina, this is my first question. Trump has all to lose and nothing to gain from this event. But the opposition, and the anti-T republican party gains everything. The concerted Goog, facebook and Twitter censorship, something that would have been impossible to do 6 months ago now clamored if not sanctioned politically.

Civilian coups are very different from military coups. Military ones are easy to understand: the guy with the gun did it. Civilian coups happen when a majority or at least a great amount of people agree with what is happening so are willing to go along with the situation.

Trump is an idiot and gave a massive opening here. But the fact that there is so much consensus on what's happening next is not a defense of institutions, specially if this was sparked.