Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store • Hacker News Board

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#631

Post by rayiner » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:11 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #498

rayiner wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When Hollywood voluntarily removed certain movies and ideas during the black list it was justified for the same reason these bans are justified: these ideas are harmful to society. And it was deemed censorship. In fact it’s an archetypal example of censorship. Government action isn’t required unless you’re talking about the 1A. And this is yet another escalation on the road that started with “we’re just going to cens…

Hollywood isn’t a monolith, and it didn’t “remove movies or ideas”. Hollywood production companies and theatre chains agree to set standards for film ratings in order to access large audiences. Artists almost always have had the ability to release unrated films, at the costs of access to large funding sources and theatre chains. That’s freedom in both directions. At its worst Hollywood created a black list for allege…

I’m talking about something quite different: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood_blacklist

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#632

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

sawjet wrote: post #515

modriano wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you at all worried about the possibility that America could have another civil war because a sufficiently large proportion of Americans are radicalized in uncensored, insufficiently moderated communities? Facebook's own research found “64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools” and that most of the activity came from the platform’s “Groups You Should Join” and “Discover” algorithms: “Ou…

Welcome to the streisand effect. Big tech has effectively silenced 80m Americans and Parker and other alternative wrongspeak will grow much faster now.

That is not the Streisand effect.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#633

Post by dgudkov » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:12 AM UTC

This will certainly give boost to the decentralization movement in general and to Mastodon in particular.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#634

Post by kumarvvr » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:13 AM UTC

bluescrn wrote: post #617

kumarvvr wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand the viewpoint you have, though I don't agree with it. Radical ideas have always looked for ways to spread around and influence people. As in with any idea, there are good ones (Why should a worker not have paid holidays, or days off, or have work life balance, education rights, voting rights, etc) and bad ones (the ones we see espoused by many radical right wingers like the claimed inferiority of the…

If you're only exposed to left-wing media, you only see right-wing radicalisation. If you're only exposed to right-wing media, you only see left-wing radicalisation. Both tribes are convinced that the other is dangerously radical.

Ok. Can you name the three top radical ideas of each side? Just curious.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#635

Post by _y5hn » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

ehvatum wrote: post #562

modriano wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you at all worried about the possibility that America could have another civil war because a sufficiently large proportion of Americans are radicalized in uncensored, insufficiently moderated communities? Facebook's own research found “64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools” and that most of the activity came from the platform’s “Groups You Should Join” and “Discover” algorithms: “Ou…

The proposition that free and open discussion creates civil war is frightening. If we are prepared to believe such a thing, then we have no democracy to protect.

Lies are often how wars start.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#636

Post by vmception » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #149

vmception wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cute disclaimers. As the government is not involved at all, the overreach argument doesn't apply. edit: okay. overreach/censorship in private sector doesn't bother me. thanks. make the antitrust case if it inconveniences you too much to make an alternative.

> As the government is not involved at all, the overreach argument doesn't apply. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/technology/90-perc... If Google gives most of its donations to Democrats, how can you believe that they will not do what Democrats want them to do? Also, Democrats have been very vocal about the fact that Google and Twitter did not "censor enough" recently. This is a nice follow-up.

It could equally be said that the Democrats will do what Google wants them to do. That would be more in line with how other industry donations result in.

> how can you believe

I never said anything about what I believe.

If you believe the state is controlling some private organizations to conduct censorship, take it to a court.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

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Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:14 AM UTC

bun_at_work wrote: post #620

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? Last time I checked, BLM app ( https://apps.apple.com/us/app/black-lives-matter/id955318790 ) is on Apple store and the group has, among other notable events, burning Kenosha done on their bucket list. Google, Apple, FB, Twitter et al have zero issues supporting violence as long it supports a given side. I don't buy the analogy ( mostly because most analogies are crap ). Normal people try thought experiments and…

I didn't say anything about the BLM app. Don't know why you're bringing that up, other than to strawman, but hey, that's what they do.

It is not a strawman. I introduced BLM specifically, because, just like not all Trump voters are violent, I am sure some are. BLM is just another side of the coin in my view. They are a group, who had instances of violent behaviors ( see 'fiery but mostly peaceful' CNN clip for reference ) during the past year(s?).

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#638

Post by ThrowawayR2 » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

flunhat wrote: post #443

pjc50 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other way round: anyone on the left is used to unfair treatment. The app reporting drone strike locations was banned years ago. Apple caused tumblr to self-destruct. Just this time the policy is actually in our favor. Unlimited incitement to violence is not sustainable. Banning them for this is the start ; America is going to have a long uncomfortable process of dealing with its media.

Exactly -- I love the pearl-clutching tone of these of slippery-slope complaints: "Just you wait, leftists! One day the power of the state shall be visited upon you, and then you'll see! How would you feel if the government censored you, infiltrated your gatherings, and sidelined you from mainstream society? Hmmmmm?"

> "How would you feel if the government censored you, infiltrated your gatherings, and sidelined you from mainstream society?"

It already happened to the left before and it was called the Red Scare of the '50s. It is strange to see the modern left dig up those old repressive practices and adopt the for their own but "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it" I suppose.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#639

Post by modriano » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

brigandish wrote: post #521

modriano wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you at all worried about the possibility that America could have another civil war because a sufficiently large proportion of Americans are radicalized in uncensored, insufficiently moderated communities? Facebook's own research found “64% of all extremist group joins are due to our recommendation tools” and that most of the activity came from the platform’s “Groups You Should Join” and “Discover” algorithms: “Ou…

If you start conflating free speech with child pornography when that isn’t even relevant or necessary to the point at hand then it’ll be no wonder if you lack responses, and maybe you’ll consider that proof of a strong argument, who knows? Maybe that’s even the point of slinging that in there. I fail to see how that will lead to productive discussion though.

Neither I nor the person I replied to mentioned free speech. They asserted that Google or Apple removing an app will lead to Google or Apple "[taking] everything else from you".

I pointed out a class of apps that are banned and asked why we haven't slipped down the slope they described.

Re: Google suspending Parler from the Google Play store

#640

Post by adkadskhj » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 2:17 AM UTC

valuearb wrote: post #568

adkadskhj wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the natural possibility of closed systems we all subscribe to. Your ISP is only one government call away from disconnecting you. The answer is relying on corporate sponsored freedoms is not enough. Open source tools and communication technologies need to be available.

Open source can’t solve the problem if government control exists.

If government can control everything then why are we even discussing anything? Clearly this discussion is in the realm of citizens having _some_ free will.

Rather, we're talking about whether or not the government should forcibly allow/deny corporations from supporting extremists. This has nothing to do with government control, imo.