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Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

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Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#701

Post by danijelb »

awak3ning wrote: post #642

Very disturbing example of censorship and de-platforming. The rationale for permanent ban seems both reactionary and subjective. The scant analysis provided under the "Assessment" stretches the words and context of the tweet to imbue it with the most uncharitable meaning possible. This should be dismaying to non-political and political citizens alike, as well as supporters and non-supporters of this individual. I bel…

That's not what censorship means. Actual censorship, which was seen in Eastern and Central Europe and some other places during communism meant that you're literally not allowed to say certain things. You'd be prosecuted by the government if someone reported you or the government found out in any way that you were spreading certain kind of "forbidden" ideas. It didn't matter where you said it, when you said it, to how many people you said it, and if you used your own platform to say it or someone else's. It was simply not allowed.

What Americans call censorship is not that. Anyone who is banned from a particular platform still has freedom of speech. They can say whatever they want to whoever they want without the fear of government prosecution. If Twitter bans someone, it doesn't mean that the banned person can't speak somewhere else. Everyone has a right to moderate their private property which includes digital space. Although banned from Twitter and some other platforms, Trump didn't lose his freedom of speech. He can say whatever he wants. It's just that he will need an alternative way to reach a big audience because major companies specializing in providing big audiences don't want to provide him their services.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#703

Post by annexrichmond »

runarberg wrote: post #206
postalrat wrote: post #132

When /r/the_donald got booted off reddit they got together and created https://thedonald.win/ . All this action from twitter will do is create an opportunity for a different or new site to host trump's comments. And for many people, and maybe someday the majority of people, that new site may be more trustworthy than twitter.

Good. Kick him of off the more popular platform and let him rot in the dirty corners of the internet. He and his followers can spew their racism all they want in some dirty unmoderated space where I and my friends don’t have to suffer for it. If they then use that platform to plan something dangerous and illegal, a competent law enforcement should be able to stop it and arrest them on grounds of conspiracy or hate sp…

How did the existence of his account on Twitter lead you and your friends to suffer? Can't you just block that account?

> If they then use that platform to plan something dangerous and illegal, a competent law enforcement should be able to stop it and arrest them on grounds of conspiracy or hate speech.

The same could be said if the account remained on Twitter. In fact, one could argue that's better platform for law enforcement to take action.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#705

Post by read_if_gay_ »

TT3351 wrote: post #307
shiado wrote: post #115

74 million voters. This is not going to play out well. There's really no coming back from this moment, the technocratic elite have changed American democracy forever. Edit: I mean this in the way Snowden tweeted yesterday, it will be interesting how this plays out for better or worse, but it is a monumental policy shift that will be a date marked in history books.

You say this like its the first time Americans have had to learn to live with having lost a federal election. Half the country is disappointed every four years. Starting to make concessions to terrorists because they got really upset after being lied to repeatedly makes no sense.

The issue is the right feels underrepresented in the MSM, so they move on to alternative media which are echo chambers, which leads to things like these riots, and the response from the left creates further segregation and more echo chambers. Both sides remain confident they are completely, 100% in the right, because each is living in their own universe. This feedback loop has been going on for a while now and right now it's just going crazy.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#706

Post by PaulDavisThe1st »

0x1F8B wrote: post #432
dukeofdoom wrote: post #303

This has been an embarrassing incident to those in power because it made them look weak. But calling a populist movement with millions of supporters, terrorists is very short sighted. It will only accelerate the fire. The left soon will control all three branches of government, after an election that many people question, has been simultaneously advocating for censorship of its political adversaries, more draconian c…

I agree with you. I think there is something wrong with the way we are reacting to these people and it's ratcheting up every day. I personally think they are deplorable and retrograde and, above all, willfully ignorant. But there is something wrong with this entire system and the path forward feels as untenable as the path we've been on. There has to be a detente, but I would never suggest that amongst my orbit of pe…

Had we known each other, I'd have been one of those friends who might have said "gun them all down".

But ... to whatever extent I really meant that (and I really don't know what that extent is, though I do know that the sight of the confederate flag inside the US Capitol made my blood boil) ... I didn't do that. I didn't order anyone to do that. I didn't encourage anyone to do that. I didn't even go on social media and suggest it.

Meanwhile, while I was feeling whatever I was feeling, two pipe bombs were carried into the Capitol building. Windows were smashed, offices ramsacked, and there may (just may for now) have been much more serious intent on the part of some of those who got in (reports about plans to abduct various members of congress, not sufficiently confirmed yet).

So please, let's stop with the whataboutisms and the both-sides-do-it nonsense. Yes, there's blame for most things in this country to be distributed across both political parties. But equating some of our angry, privately voiced feelings about a violent attack on the US Capitol with ... a violent attack on the US Capitol ... just seems nonsensical to me.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#707

Post by metabagel »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #111
Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

It's extremely weak, but that doesn't matter. Twitter has been wanting to do this for a very long time. This was the perfect catalyst and they're going to be lauded for doing so by the left.

As others have pointed out, Twitter put Trump on notice that another violation would result in a permanent ban.

I'm not sure why you felt compelled to mention "the left" in this context. Are you implying that Twitter wants to curry favor with the left? Or perhaps that if the left is happy, then it's a bad thing? I feel like there is some subtext that you might as well just spell out.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#708

Post by azangru »

mrchess wrote: post #177
Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

When I saw the cryptic 1 sentence tweet that he wasn't going to be there, the first thing that came to mind was that he was telling his supporters indirectly that they could do whatever they wanted since he wouldn't be in harms way. So perhaps it is a huge stretch to some, but we need to remember it is also not a stretch at all to many, especially given the recent events. Therein lies the danger.

> the first thing that came to mind was that he was telling his supporters indirectly that they could do whatever they wanted since he wouldn't be in harms way

Wow, it would have never occurred to me to read it like this, but then I am hopeless at teasing out hidden meanings from what people say. To me, this is just so consistent with the overall picture of him that's been consistently painted in the media, and which he only verifies by his own behavior — that of a stubborn, spoilt, petulant child — that I can't but take his words at face value, i.e. that he's informing the world that he won't show up because of spite.

I am also amused that there seems to be a non-negligible amount of people who apparently care whether he will or will not attend the ceremony. To a foreigner like me, it just sounds so insignificant and puny.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#709

Post by lightgreen »

gyc wrote: post #72
ve55 wrote: post #44

This ban seems to heavily take advantage of the current moment, as it's obvious that he has tweeted worse things in the past. It's strange that they picked such a poor way to justify the ban when they could have made a significantly stronger case, and in doing so could have convinced millions more people that they are trying their best to apply policies evenly. For example, I have a hard time imagining why they chose…

Sure. He's violated twitter's rules numerous times. This is as good of a time as any to actually enforce their rules.

Twitter rules are so broad and states so vaguely, that half of the Twitter users technically violated them numerous time, and Twitter applies these rules selectively.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#710

Post by mNovak »

garyrichardson wrote: post #365
handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

Additionally I believe wholesale banning the leader of a country from a platform like twitter is not black or white. Their persona is different and requires different treatment than any other given account. I suspect two factors went into the calculus this time: he has proved himself desperately dangerous AND he's got less than 2 weeks left in his term.

The latter I think is being underrated as a major contributing factor.. fear of retribution and all that.
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