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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#401

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

Is it surprising that when fascists and racists are muzzled, they lash out to try to maintain the power to hurt others? No, it’s not surprising, and the lack of surprise is not part of any of the newsworthy stories of the last several days.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#402

Post by MereInterest »

mlyle wrote: post #95
bjtitus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler has been hosting TONS of incitements to violence and seems to refuse to take it down (or is at least extremely slow to). I don't see why it's particularly crazy that Apple would want to avoid the liability from that. FWIW, I think alternatives to Twitter, like Parler and Mastodon, are a good idea, but Parler acts like they have a fair takedown process when it's evident that it is not working particularly well.

Yah. It's like, before the_donald was banned: at least there was a grownup in the room reining it in some and it could be seen. But if you wholesale kick out the extremists, they make their own happy place where there's nothing to slow them down at all. (And then, in turn, you end up playing wack-a-mole with those cesspools, asking Apple/Google to deplatform them, etc.)

What I'm not sure on is the effect of making a community smaller. If you have 10 million people in a tepid cesspool, shutting down that cesspool might make 100k of them move to a more extreme location, while the remainder stop being exposed to that influence. The remaining smaller community is more extreme, but primarily because it has only the more extreme members of the previous iteration.

Sort of like how doomsday cults get more fervent with each incorrectly predicted apocalypse. The cult gets smaller, but those that remain are the true believers.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#403

Post by Acrobatic_Road »

systemvoltage wrote: post #390
Acrobatic_Road wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds dystopian because it is! Shame on you all!

I know, its my knee-jerk reaction :( But this is how I feel right now and so many Americans. Trump is getting banned left and right as we speak. We have freedom of speech, just not for seditious, insurrectionists. No country in the world would tolerate what US has tolerated so far. I also recognize, fully, this is a slippery slope and there should be a pretty high bar for banning people on social media platforms. I w…

Trump didn't incite violence. As other comments point out, twitter's cited tweets are poor justification. This is a political purge in order to win favor with the biden administration.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#404

Post by lanstin »

andy_ppp wrote: post #385
mbesto wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate They didn't exist in the public debate to begin with. Social media opened that up. We're realizing just how negatively impactful a village idiot with a megaphone the size of a city block can be.

Yes, the problem is this; I’m not interested in what someone who is dumb enough to storm the Capitol building has to say. And they aren’t interested in having a debate on the facts either, so what are we going to discuss? I don’t get how we can come together and make this better...

Look into targeted individuals - they are similar to QAnon but clearly exhibiting classic schizophrenia symptoms and now organized and helping each other come up with ways to keep the thought rays out of their heads etc. I have no answer but I remember how intoxicating it was when I first got access to an world wide communication network and could learn from neuroscientists all over the world (as a then 16 yo I got flamed a good bit.). We for sure haven’t figured out how to use global networks safely.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#405

Post by h_anna_h »

spoonjim wrote: post #389
caconym_ wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can read quite clearly between the lines of your comment, but I’m still having trouble finding where in my comment I said that users calling for violence on social media should be exempt from sanctions if they’re left-leaning.

Also, beware the false equivalence between smashing a store window and stealing some crap vs. actually attacking a human being. They will use the word "violence" to describe both, rather than get into a definition war with them, just keep the distinction clear.

I really do not think that most willing to smash a bunch of windows would hesitate to attack you if you stand between them and said windows.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#406

Post by jldugger »

meekmockmook wrote: post #6

Parler, YouTube, Twitter and Facebook were definitely used to storm Congress. Snapchat, YouTube, Instagram, Twitter and Facebook also were definitely used to burn down parts of Minneapolis, Chicago, and LA. Massive Big Tech conglomerates must be busted through antitrust enforcement and Section 230 must be updated to ban predatory algorithms which have inflamed 7 years of sectarian chaos. It's not a free speech issue:…

I mean, IRC can do the same damn thing in a federated way.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#407

Post by macintux »

bstar77 wrote: post #395
mbesto wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate They didn't exist in the public debate to begin with. Social media opened that up. We're realizing just how negatively impactful a village idiot with a megaphone the size of a city block can be.

My mother read a book to me called "The Emperor Has No Cloths" when I was very young. The book is silly, but it stays with me to this day. Every time I hear my president repeat absurd, dangerous and divisive conspiracy theories, this book always comes to mind. Same goes for the supporters that defend him. Public debate is fine, but we are watching a huge population of people absurdly follow this man in his birthday s…

Yeah, it’s increasingly obvious that the fable was wrong. People are easily led (and not just those who cling to Trump).

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#408

Post by dcolkitt »

andy_ppp wrote: post #385
mbesto wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the population out of public debate They didn't exist in the public debate to begin with. Social media opened that up. We're realizing just how negatively impactful a village idiot with a megaphone the size of a city block can be.

Yes, the problem is this; I’m not interested in what someone who is dumb enough to storm the Capitol building has to say. And they aren’t interested in having a debate on the facts either, so what are we going to discuss? I don’t get how we can come together and make this better...

Honest question: Who do you consider the smartest Trump supporter? Do you think you have anything to learn from them by engaging in a good faith discussion?

My point being maybe you think 95% of MAGA-hats are off their rocker, and Trumpism taken as a whole is grossly misguided. I don't really disagree. But is it possible that there's some core nugget of wisdom to take away. Something, perhaps that your current worldview is glossing over.

Instead of just writing off the political beliefs of literally half the people in America, maybe we should really be super certain that we make a genuine attempt to understand where they're coming from.

At worst, we've wasted some time talking to idiots. But my guess is if we make a good-faith and honest attempt to find the best and brightest Trumpists out there (instead of just smugly dunking on the dumbest trolls on the Internet), that maybe, just maybe there may be a kernel of truth underlying their ideology.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#409

Post by koolba »

elliekelly wrote: post #383
nicbou wrote: post #11

Someone brought an interesting perspective in another thread and I can't shake it off. The other side keeps deplatforming them. Their legal cases are rejected. The mainstream media refuses to take them seriously. We're not even listening to them, because it's science and they're *ists if they disagree. We're not debating anymore. We just assume we're right. We are slowly squeezing a significant segment of the populat…

They’re being de-platformed for the same reason the Marriott kicks a homeless person out of the lobby or Amtrak kicks a loud person out of the quiet car: most of the platform’s users don’t want them there.

This is more akin to Amtrak kicking out half the people on the train who already purchased tickets.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#410

Post by regularfry »

mlyle wrote: post #95
bjtitus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Parler has been hosting TONS of incitements to violence and seems to refuse to take it down (or is at least extremely slow to). I don't see why it's particularly crazy that Apple would want to avoid the liability from that. FWIW, I think alternatives to Twitter, like Parler and Mastodon, are a good idea, but Parler acts like they have a fair takedown process when it's evident that it is not working particularly well.

Yah. It's like, before the_donald was banned: at least there was a grownup in the room reining it in some and it could be seen. But if you wholesale kick out the extremists, they make their own happy place where there's nothing to slow them down at all. (And then, in turn, you end up playing wack-a-mole with those cesspools, asking Apple/Google to deplatform them, etc.)

It's not quite that simple; it's not zero-sum. Whacking one mole breaks up recruitment and kills momentum. People on the fringes lose interest and don't bother to find out where the core moved to. When the next mole comes up it's smaller and more divided, so you whack that one, and again, smaller, more peripheral, less momentum. That gives people who have peeled off a chance to get re-integrated into more sane communities rather than being bathed in constant toxicity, so they crawl back from radicalisation. At least, that's how it works below a certain size, and is why it's worth doing these things early, before they get to the_donald sort of numbers.
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