Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump • Hacker News Board

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#601

Post by joncrane » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:30 AM UTC

webel0 wrote: post #252

Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

This was my exact initial reaction. However, suppose that Bill Clinton, George Bush, or Barack Obama had declined to attend the inauguration of there predecessors. That would surely trigger a crisis worthy of de-platforming. We’ve become somewhat numb to this sort of thing. I guess my second draft would have said, “We’ve allowed DJT a platform because he is the President of the United States. In light of all that he…

>suppose that Bill Clinton, George Bush, or Barack Obama had declined to attend the inauguration of there predecessors. That would surely trigger a crisis worthy of de-platforming.

What? Let's say Obama had declined to attend Trump's inauguration. I don't think Twitter would ban him for that.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#602

Post by trynewideas » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

kzrdude wrote: post #580

dredmorbius wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The environment has changed. Previously theoretic risks are now manifest, demonstrated, and cognizable. Actual riots, insurrection, disruption of government, assaults on law enforcement, damage to government buildings, theft of government property, violence, and deaths, have occurred. The instigator is unrepentent and non-credible in what are at best tepid disavowals. The totality of context has changed. If "he has t…

Don't you think that one of the most important changes in recent weeks is that he's now a lame duck, he doesn't really have power anymore. This is why he's been losing more an more allies since election day. Powerful figures and institutions can change their stance now and this is a preemption of his exit when the next president takes over. I'm basically saying, it's a whole lot easier to be "brave" and deal a blow t…

> he's now a lame duck, he doesn't really have power anymore

you can try telling that to the 5 dead people from the sacking of the Capitol I guess

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#603

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

alex_young wrote: post #205

handmodel wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic isn't that hard. Person says bad things to whip up a mob - Twitter unsure to take him seriously or literally. Mob actually materializes and several people die - Twitter sure they now have to take him literally

It's really important realize this distinction. Imagine a newspaper printing a letter to the editor from a person whose words have previously incited a riot. I find it surprising that they enabled the account again at all after the 6th.

[deleted]

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#604

Post by ffggvv » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

reminds me of 911 when they took an act they had always wanted to do (patriot act) and used the circumstances to crack down on individual freedoms.

this will be the last time i use twitter

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#605

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:31 AM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

I find it exceedingly dificult to justify that conclusion based on Twitter's analysis:

President Trump’s statement that he will not be attending the Inauguration is being received by a number of his supporters as further confirmation that the election was not legitimate and is seen as him disavowing his previous claim made via two Tweets (1, 2) by his Deputy Chief of Staff, Dan Scavino, that there would be an “orderly transition” on January 20th. The second Tweet may also serve as encouragement to those potentially considering violent acts that the Inauguration would be a “safe” target, as he will not be attending.

The use of the words “American Patriots” to describe some of his supporters is also being interpreted as support for those committing violent acts at the US Capitol.

The mention of his supporters having a “GIANT VOICE long into the future” and that “They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!” is being interpreted as further indication that President Trump does not plan to facilitate an “orderly transition” and instead that he plans to continue to support, empower, and shield those who believe he won the election.

Plans for future armed protests have already begun proliferating on and off-Twitter, including a proposed secondary attack on the US Capitol and state capitol buildings on January 17, 2021.

From TFA.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#606

Post by konjin » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

Legion wrote: post #259

allendoerfer wrote: post #167

Does anybody have a solution to the bigger underlying question of de-platforming and censorship on online platforms? As far as I can tell, there are two general viewpoints: a) Censorship is bad, free speech is good. You should counter bad arguments with better arguments. b) There are types of speech, which are proven to lead to violence in the long-run. Also, some things can be proven as untrue. Lies are bad. I have…

> You should counter bad arguments with better arguments We've witnessed the fallacy of this argument. It assumes a level of rationality that has been proven to be unreasonable to assume. The problem isn't that "better" arguments aren't reaching people. Rather, we have watched people exercise an incredible ability to discard overwhelming evidence and embrace narratives that have literally zero evidence to support the…

When we didn't ban these people in the 00s and early 10s we didn't get people attacking the Capitol.

Within 3 years of starting serious censorship in most major platforms we have had a near coup.

Sounds like the new system is less effective then blood letting and the only thing that it has going for it is that it makes the people supporting censorship feel better about them selves.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#607

Post by enumjorge » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

dukeofdoom wrote: post #303

This has been an embarrassing incident to those in power because it made them look weak. But calling a populist movement with millions of supporters, terrorists is very short sighted. It will only accelerate the fire. The left soon will control all three branches of government, after an election that many people question, has been simultaneously advocating for censorship of its political adversaries, more draconian c…

> after an election that many people question

Many people also think the earth is flat. It doesn’t mean there’s any merit to the claim. Countless election officials, judges and government officials, both left and right-leaning alike have unequivocally stated that there was no fraud. This group includes Trump’s own attorney general. Biden was elected democratically.

I don’t know if you saw coverage of what happened yesterday, but it already got violent. These people went beyond “voicing their grievances” and broke the law.

And I don’t see anyone calling everyone who voted for Trump a terrorist. They’re calling those who broke into the Capitol in order to use fear to change the results of an election, terrorists. The fact that you’re equating Trump voters with that mob is on you.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#608

Post by rootusrootus » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

rmk wrote: post #472

shiado wrote: post #115

74 million voters. This is not going to play out well. There's really no coming back from this moment, the technocratic elite have changed American democracy forever. Edit: I mean this in the way Snowden tweeted yesterday, it will be interesting how this plays out for better or worse, but it is a monumental policy shift that will be a date marked in history books.

It appears to me that there is a huge electorate that is disgruntled and has felt that the people in power have ignored it for too long. If such a large number of people have actually vandalized Congress (didn't they do something like this to the Michigan Statehouse) to make their displeasure known, then they must genuinely feel that the normal method of registering protest, i.e., voting, has ceased to function for t…

Those 74 million people were quick to taunt the other side for being disappointed in losing the 2016 election, they like to wave flags that say 'fuck your feelings' as some weird badge of pride. Why again are we supposed to be understanding of them? Perhaps they are, in fact, just jerks and it's okay to say so.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#609

Post by mzs » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #466

Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

Twitter has done a bad job communicating this. After the 12 hour ban, Trump's twitter account lost its special privilege too and instead of "blue tagging" his tweets they said they would just ban it next time. This was "next time" so they followed through and banned it: > Future violations of the Twitter Rules, including our Civic Integrity or Violent Threats policies, will result in permanent suspension of the @real…

Plus he never did delete the prior three offending tweets as he was supposed to prior to regaining full features of the account during that 12 hour period.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#610

Post by dang » Sat, Jan 09, 2021, 12:32 AM UTC

moonbug wrote: post #475

llcoolv wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Please don't take HN threads further into this kind of ideological flamewar, which is equal parts dumb and inflammatory, and invariably evokes worse from others. No doubt the L-word was a minor provocation but the GP comment was at least trying to say something on-topic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html