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Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

scientificamerican.com

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Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#161

Post by terio »

dkarl wrote: post #61
matwood wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sigh. A good criticism of Lustigs demonizing fructose: http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-ab... Key takeaway that Lustig ignores - USDA numbers by the way: Total energy intake in 1970 averaged 2172 kcal. By 2007 this hiked up to 2775 kcal, a 603 kcal increase.

Intake is the key point in the entire argument for me. The dose makes the poison, and at this point we're arguing over whether it is healthier to poison ourselves with excessive calories from fat or excessive calories from carbs. If you don't eat too much, you don't have a stake in the argument at all.

Not really. It depends on each person's metabolism. I know people that get fat just by having regular desserts for a few days, and others (generally very young) that can eat anything until they burst without moving the needle.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#162

Post by learc83 »

warmfuzzykitten wrote: post #83
fanboy123 wrote: post #23

I think the real answer is because it is more systematically profitable to sell carb products and (food) companies are really really good at selling things to people. It is interesting to see comments on this forum that involve the strategy of reasoning with the public to get them to accept their idea. Next time you see somebody drinking a soda explain to them what fructose does metabolically to their bodies. Your me…

I think, first, one should differentiate between the part of the food industry that is actually the sugar industry - products like Coke and Gatorade and Snickers - and the part that is packaged convenience food that also contains a lot of sugar. (High-fructose corn syrup is just another sugar with 5-10% more fructose.) The convenience food industry is highly motivated to sell what the public wants to buy. They follow…

Wow, where did you get the Dr. Atkins died of heart failure? He slipped on ice, hit his head and died as a result.

Do people really believe that this is how he died?

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#164

Post by watmough »

JanezStupar wrote: post #148
watmough wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For myself and my wife, typical US serving sizes constitute 3 meals, though nowadays, we generally only eat out occasionally, and at local non-chain restaurants that serve decent quality food.

Anecdotally - I'm from europe and when I was in the US I only ate one meal a day. I simply didn't feel hungry for a whole day after a typical American meal.

My scariest experience of American food was on my first night in the country. I was in the lobby of the hotel and kinda peckish, so I ordered the nearest thing I could find to a ham sandwich, a montecristo.

Despite it being actually fairly cheap, what arrived, was a MASSIVE batter encrusted mountain of about 50 sandwich quarters...

Good grief America!

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#165

Post by jdminhbg »

ajscherer wrote: post #144
jdminhbg wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It really sounds reasonable to so many of you that the cause of the obesity epidemic is people actually listening to nutrition advice from the medical establishment and following the food pyramid?" Who said this? The anti-nutritional establishment claim being made here is that the incorrect demonization of fat led people to replace dietary fat with carbohydrates (see, e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SnackWells ).…

The surprise is genuine, and I didn't include any anecdotes in my post. The research I have seen indicates that high carbohydrate intake (particularly sugars) is more likely to make someone obese than high fat intake. The research I have seen in no way indicates that the reason people select high sugar foods is because those foods are believed to be healthy by virtue of their low fat content. No doubt companies use "…

"I think this idea that the dietary advice of 20-30 years ago (low fat) is the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is the result of a desire for a dramatically satisfying narrative."

Again, you're arguing against a claim that isn't being made. The anti-carb claim is that the primary cause of the obesity epidemic is the vast consumption of sugars and other simple, processed carbohydrates. A contributing factor to this dietary problem is that even people who try to eat well have been led to believe that cutting out steak and replacing it with whole wheat bread would help them, which is wrong and was backed up by bad science.

If you are having trouble believing that people think that the obesity problem is caused by nutritionists telling everyone to drink six Cokes a day, that is because nobody is claiming that. They are claiming that the problem which already existed was exacerbated by bad advice, and that lots of people who tried hard to do something about their own personal problems were frustrated and gave up because they were told to do counterproductive things.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#166

Post by kstenerud »

My beef is that nutritional "experts" tend to reverse their "advice" every 5-10 years.

- X is bad - No, actually X is good. - No, it turns out X is actually bad after all. - No, actually it's Y that's causing all our problems. - Wait, no, it's Z.

And then along comes the marketing blitz.

"No salt", "Sugar free" "glucose free" "gluten free" "made with cane syrup" "cholesterol free" "fat free" "no saturated fat" "no trans fat" and now "carb free", no doubt.

And then the vitamin supplement and herbal crowd come out to flog their latest crackpot diets and exercise regimens and trans-yogic-meta-druidic-ninjutsu-meditation.

Yes, I rage much :P

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#167

Post by sambeau »

terio wrote: post #161
dkarl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intake is the key point in the entire argument for me. The dose makes the poison, and at this point we're arguing over whether it is healthier to poison ourselves with excessive calories from fat or excessive calories from carbs. If you don't eat too much, you don't have a stake in the argument at all.

Not really. It depends on each person's metabolism. I know people that get fat just by having regular desserts for a few days, and others (generally very young) that can eat anything until they burst without moving the needle.

There is no such thing as 'metabolism': just body mass, muscle mass and activity.

Big people burn more calories even when still. Active people burn more than still people of the same size. Muscular people burn more calories than the non-muscular as they have to feed their bigger muscles.

In sealed room tests fat people use more calories than thin people.

Skinny people who can eat anything they want without putting on weight tend to be very fidgety - they never keep totally still. Just wiggling a leg all day can use a large amount of energy.

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#168

Post by troels »

terio wrote: post #26
joshklein wrote: post #16

I think there are a number of issues: 1 - People relate fat the nutrient to fat the body type because they share the word "fat". Not much to do there. In high school I was taught that carbohydrates were "energy" and fat was "waste". People should probably be taught the right way our biological systems operate. 2 - Medical authorities have worked with the best science they had available at the time, and are almost alw…

My strategy is simple: in general I avoid food that a hunter-gatherer would not be able to find. I said "in general" because I eat cheese, some hams and preserved meats and sausages, and I also drink wine. After a short learning curve it became very easy. In terms of convenience, I still find a sandwich and a canned juice pretty convenient, but I avoid them anyway. I have not had the need for other "convenient" foods…

Wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that prehistoric man was optimised for a much shorter life-span than present day man has? In that case, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that pre-historic diet isn't good in the long term?

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#169

Post by abrown28 »

sambeau wrote: post #167
terio wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. It depends on each person's metabolism. I know people that get fat just by having regular desserts for a few days, and others (generally very young) that can eat anything until they burst without moving the needle.

There is no such thing as 'metabolism': just body mass, muscle mass and activity. Big people burn more calories even when still. Active people burn more than still people of the same size. Muscular people burn more calories than the non-muscular as they have to feed their bigger muscles. In sealed room tests fat people use more calories than thin people. Skinny people who can eat anything they want without putting on…

Awesome... I will tell my coworker who is always complaining about my fidgeting legs that I'm exercising ;)

Re: Why do people resist the idea that carbs are worse than fat?

#170

Post by bborud »

why is everyone suddenly a nutrition expert?

I know a lot of people who have opinions on what is good for you and what isn't in terms of food. none of them are doctors, of course. in fact, most of them have never taken any science subjects at all, and wouldn't know their ass from a redox equation even if you threw a shelf-full of chemistry books at them.

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