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Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

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Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#461

Post by physicles »

klank wrote: post #315
allendoerfer wrote: post #167

Does anybody have a solution to the bigger underlying question of de-platforming and censorship on online platforms? As far as I can tell, there are two general viewpoints: a) Censorship is bad, free speech is good. You should counter bad arguments with better arguments. b) There are types of speech, which are proven to lead to violence in the long-run. Also, some things can be proven as untrue. Lies are bad. I have…

I'm squarely in group b, however, I don't think it's an actual dichotomy in the way you present it. I think American's fetishize "free speech" which leads to a "hyper group a" that argues since censorship is scary (which it is) we'd rather face any other conceivable consequence rather than wrestle with the hard questions of what is appropriate vs. inappropriate public speech. I believe we're seeing examples of where…

> If it swings too far the other way I'll quickly switch my thoughts on the matter.

I’m also in group b, but the danger is that if it swings too far the other way, we may have already lost the ability to speak out against _that_ and restore balance.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#462

Post by ookblah »

honestly, good riddance. you can argue the merits of all this stuff "intellectually" about free speech and what not, but it doesn't pass the sniff test. and twitter is a private enterprise. he's free to go off to parler or whatever and take the millions of followers with him.

this entire thing is just an extension of the type of shit you get real tired of in daily life. like some bully repeatedly antagonizing you and when you finally fight back they claim persecution.

like the key and peele skit... no, you're no persecuted, you're just an asshole.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#463

Post by MattGaiser »

shiado wrote: post #115

74 million voters. This is not going to play out well. There's really no coming back from this moment, the technocratic elite have changed American democracy forever. Edit: I mean this in the way Snowden tweeted yesterday, it will be interesting how this plays out for better or worse, but it is a monumental policy shift that will be a date marked in history books.

In a book about how the Trump era changed democracy, this would merit a paragraph or two at most.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#464

Post by danijelb »

mrchess wrote: post #177
Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

When I saw the cryptic 1 sentence tweet that he wasn't going to be there, the first thing that came to mind was that he was telling his supporters indirectly that they could do whatever they wanted since he wouldn't be in harms way. So perhaps it is a huge stretch to some, but we need to remember it is also not a stretch at all to many, especially given the recent events. Therein lies the danger.

I've been browsing thedonald.win today to see how his supporters are reacting to recent events, and that is one of the ways some users interpreted his tweet. Other than that, a ton of crazy theories. They literally take any two-three words from his tweets and make it mean whatever they want it to mean. To give you an example, in one of the recent tweets he put words "GIANT VOICE" in caps and they interpreted it as a reference to a military communication system with the same name. From that other people started theorizing how Trump will use the military system to circumvent the "big tech censorship" and deliver some dirty secrets about his "enemies"

So, looking from that perspective any tweet of any person could be taken down because some conspiracy theorist interpreted it in a particular way. And in their heads, this ban only gives them more "proof" that they are right.

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#465

Post by EmilioMartinez »

throwaway_lolol wrote: post #345
admiralspoo wrote: post #202

Note that accounts such as Iran's Kamenei or those associated with groups in Pakistan, which have called for the destruction of Israel, are not banned https://twitter.com/khamenei_ir

Here's one from the Chinese Embassy in US that literally supports a genocide. > Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They are more confident and independent. https://t.co/lykDhByEiL https://twitter.com/ChineseEmbinUS/status/134724760209453465…

They figured out how to market genocide to western audiences

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#466

Post by Someone1234 »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #54

Is it just my perception, or is their actual justification using the 2 quoted tweets kinda weak? Interpreting his boycott of an event as a call to violence seems like a huge stretch. It seems like they wanted to shoehorn a justification using his 2 latest tweets when the actual reason goes back further.

Twitter has done a bad job communicating this.

After the 12 hour ban, Trump's twitter account lost its special privilege too and instead of "blue tagging" his tweets they said they would just ban it next time. This was "next time" so they followed through and banned it:

> Future violations of the Twitter Rules, including our Civic Integrity or Violent Threats policies, will result in permanent suspension of the @realDonaldTrump account.[0]

I'm surprised more people aren't bringing this up. Per them this only needed to violate "Civic Integrity" which per their explanation it looks like it does.

[0] https://twitter.com/twittersafety/status/1346970430062485505

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#467

Post by allendoerfer »

tomp wrote: post #455
allendoerfer wrote: post #167

Does anybody have a solution to the bigger underlying question of de-platforming and censorship on online platforms? As far as I can tell, there are two general viewpoints: a) Censorship is bad, free speech is good. You should counter bad arguments with better arguments. b) There are types of speech, which are proven to lead to violence in the long-run. Also, some things can be proven as untrue. Lies are bad. I have…

Either a) (US way) or b) (EU way) are fine, but the problem is when they’re applied unfairly - supporting Antifa riots is treated as a), supporting right-wing riots is treated as b).

So you are effectively argueing for a).

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#468

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

TT3351 wrote: post #326
dukeofdoom wrote: post #303

This has been an embarrassing incident to those in power because it made them look weak. But calling a populist movement with millions of supporters, terrorists is very short sighted. It will only accelerate the fire. The left soon will control all three branches of government, after an election that many people question, has been simultaneously advocating for censorship of its political adversaries, more draconian c…

What part of attempting to block a Constitutionally mandated process through the use of force is not a terrorist act?

It seems like a criminal act.

But didn't BLM demonstrate that political violence is effective at achieving your political goals? Or is it justified when it's your side committing the terrorism?

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#469

Post by colonwqbang »

sixothree wrote: post #356
shiado wrote: post #115

74 million voters. This is not going to play out well. There's really no coming back from this moment, the technocratic elite have changed American democracy forever. Edit: I mean this in the way Snowden tweeted yesterday, it will be interesting how this plays out for better or worse, but it is a monumental policy shift that will be a date marked in history books.

There have been closer elections in recent history. Why are you giving this particular one such outsized proportion? You didn't see this sort of reaction in 2000, and that was far far closer. And to be clear, this election was 306 to 232. That is considered a landslide in my book (meaning my 40+ years of living). And in percentages, you can see just how poorly Trump performed in this election - 51.4% to 46.9%. 2000 w…

> Why are you giving this particular one such outsized proportion?

> You didn't see this sort of reaction in 2000

I think you found the reason? When exactly have we seen such a reaction before?

Re: Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump

#470

Post by paxys »

ve55 wrote: post #44

This ban seems to heavily take advantage of the current moment, as it's obvious that he has tweeted worse things in the past. It's strange that they picked such a poor way to justify the ban when they could have made a significantly stronger case, and in doing so could have convinced millions more people that they are trying their best to apply policies evenly. For example, I have a hard time imagining why they chose…

The biggest reason for the timing IMO is the Senate races in Georgia. Now that Dems are in control of all chambers and Biden's appointments (to FCC and others) can go through, net neutrality is safe and section 230 is no longer in danger of being repealed, so Twitter will not face any consequences for the ban.
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