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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#291

Post by xref »

subsubzero wrote: post #165

I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted. But someone saying they don'…

> I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution

It seems like you yourself may be having a little 1st amendment confusion, it has no bearing on private companies and only refers to laws Congress is allowed to pass.

The opening paragraph of the amendment:

“Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Amendment_to_the_Unite...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#292

Post by nackerhewz »

twiceaday wrote: post #138
chroem- wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're proposing to remove a very large, very alienated group's last public channel to express themselves peacefully. This risks further escalation. This is compounded with the stark contrast to how the protests were handled this summer.

They are a minority. You can argue that putting them closer to the general public will normalize them, but there has been no sign of this. In fact quite the opposite. Putting them closer to the general public only simplifies recruiting. I think it is naive to assume their bubble can be forcefully diluted; at best we can take steps to stop promoting it.

Recruiting is simple because many moderate voices are labeled as "nazi" and consequently deplatformed and censored, that creates massive polarization and resentment.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#293

Post by charwalker »

I figure as soon as criminal acts, threats, and outright insurrection get tossed in free speech becomes a tool of oppression instead of liberty.

These folks deny factual reporting and instead follow a guy who told them to go down to the capitol and be heard.

I understand the tech view, I'm coming from a US politics view. Those responsible must be identified and prosecuted. The tools that enabled this insurrection should be dismantled to serve as an example of what happens when conspiracy idiots try to overthrow the US government and will of the people.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#295

Post by anigbrowl »

Laarlf wrote: post #271
u10 wrote: post #108

I think more students need to study how the Nazis came to power; while violent attempts were made (Beer Hall Putsch) and low level political violence between various political factions, the Nazis did not gain power through those acts. Rather a slow burn, leveraging the democratic process in the Wiemar Republic. Violence now, but these people might eventually get it together and use the democratic political process to…

This doesnt really have anything to do with Nazis. This was a few people who were really unhappy with their government and who actually stood up against that. Something to respect, even if you do not agree with their point. Because if they get caught, you can be sure that they will spend a few decades jailed.

A few people? There were thousands involved, and a plurality of Republicans support their action, according to this (reasonably reputable) poll: https://today.yougov.com/topics/politics/articles-reports/20...

Over 70 million people voted for Trump, who has made no secret of his disdain for many groups of people and institutions. After 4 years of having him as President, youc an't say they didn't know what his deal was or were misled by his TV celebrity status. Minimizing the structural issue is unhelpful.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#296

Post by themgt »

jonnycomputer wrote: post #195
mnouquet wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you remind me how long ago has antifa / BLM started its owned armed insurrection (especially in Seattle & Portland) ?

Were these people attempting to directly attack a legislative body as it performed its constitutional duty? I thought not.

May 31, 2020 attempting to breach White House perimeter: "More than 60 Secret Service officers and agents were injured near the White House ... when protesters threw “projectiles such as bricks, rocks, bottles, fireworks and other items,” according to the statement. “Personnel were also directly physically assaulted as they were kicked, punched and exposed to bodily fluids."[1]

July 22, 2020: "As they have for the past 53 days, violent anarchists continue to riot on the streets of Portland as federal law enforcement officers work diligently and honorably to enforce federal law by defending federal property and the lives of their fellow officers.

Attacks on federal personnel and property overnight have included attacks on Law Enforcement officers with commercial grade fireworks, hard projectiles, and lasers – which can cause permanent blindness. Last night violence was even more aggressive than previous nights as rioters once again tried to set fire to the federal courthouse and actively tried to breach the entrance of the courthouse. Rioters are also employing tactics that force federal officers to leave the Hatfield Federal Courthouse, setting them up to be attacked with lasers and projectiles."[2]

Perhaps these do not meet your narrow definition, yet violent attacks on our other branches of federal government seem fairly analogous if not of the same magnitude as Wednesday's assault. Are you suggesting Apple would/should allow apps where users organized violent assaults such as these on the executive and judiciary - just not against the Capitol building as Congress is in session?

[1] https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/george-floyd-protests-05-31...

[2] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/07/22/portland-riots-read-out-...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#297

Post by u10 »

Laarlf wrote: post #271
u10 wrote: post #108

I think more students need to study how the Nazis came to power; while violent attempts were made (Beer Hall Putsch) and low level political violence between various political factions, the Nazis did not gain power through those acts. Rather a slow burn, leveraging the democratic process in the Wiemar Republic. Violence now, but these people might eventually get it together and use the democratic political process to…

This doesnt really have anything to do with Nazis. This was a few people who were really unhappy with their government and who actually stood up against that. Something to respect, even if you do not agree with their point. Because if they get caught, you can be sure that they will spend a few decades jailed.

I'm sorry, what? Why would I, or anyone with any shred of dignity respect people who were attempting to overturn a free, fair, and legal election using violence (there were individuals laying pipebombs, carrying weapons, and zipties !!!) ? They have every right to voice their displeasure, either at the Capitol or at the ballot box, not by hunting politicans and executing them.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#298

Post by yawaemworht »

obiefernandez wrote: post #235
caconym_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

This is a great point that is not made often enough. The logical conclusion is that the de-platformed actors get mad enough that they start lashing out in criminal ways, doing stuff that gets them locked up or killed, or otherwise "de-platformed" in real life. There's some short term pain, but ultimately society has a net win. Convince me I'm wrong...

> The logical conclusion is that the de-platformed actors get mad enough that they start lashing out in criminal ways, doing stuff that gets them locked up or killed, or otherwise "de-platformed" in real life. There's some short term pain, but ultimately society has a net win. Convince me I'm wrong...

Aren't you, in this comment, doing the same exact thing for which those people are getting deplatformed?

I read that as a "if they get killed that's a win for society".

Would you feel comfortable if somebody said the same thing about other categories of people?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#299

Post by jariel »

splaytreemap wrote: post #276
subsubzero wrote: post #165

I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted. But someone saying they don'…

Pouring gasoline on the fire is kind of the point. Take away people's option to peacefully voice their opinion and violence is the only remaining option. The hope is that these people will commit more violence so that the government can use the violence as an excuse to criminalize their existence.

People have been voicing their opinions - and continue to voice their opinions - on Twitter, Facebook etc. all day, there is really no censorship about information regarding the election, unless it's geared towards violence.

Go ahead, right now, make a Tweet and indicate that you think the 'election was stolen'.

Nobody will care.

So on the face of it, your first claim is obviously false.

The question is - given that you and I can both right now go on FB or Twitter and say almost anything we please, and you must know that, why are you writing what you're writing?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#300

Post by jancsika »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #33

2016-2020 is going to leave such a hangover for everyone who abandoned their convictions for free speech and open platforms. Pre-2016 San Francisco used to be full of people with HUGE distrust of the USA intelligence apparatus, distrust of mainstream news, and strong convictions about free speech and open platforms. And where are they now? "Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly up…

> Pre-2016 San Francisco used to be full of people with HUGE distrust of the USA intelligence apparatus,

Moxie, and probably a bunch others that I can't think of in 5 seconds. (Probably look at the staff list at EFF web page.)

> distrust of mainstream news,

I can guarantee you the next mainstream news article critical of adtech here on HN will have its normal share of knee-jerk cranks who justify not reading the article by lazy reference to the Gell-Mann Amnesia Affectation. So don't worry at all about that one.

> and strong convictions about free speech

Yes, those strong convictions have apparently been slipping, but it's across the board and for decades. If anyone has some sources that explain this trend I'd be interested in reading them.

> and open platforms

Oh, those. They're either stuck in the 90s because it's impossible to make them secure after the fact, or they are full of open research problems.

Counterexamples welcome.

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