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Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

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Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#281

Post by mlyle »

subsubzero wrote: post #266
mlyle wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Are you saying that Apple should be compelled to help Parler and amplify their speech/give them a platform?

First: >Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted. Lets start off there, anything related to violence/physical harm has no place, anything else, its totally fair game, and is protected by the 1st amendment. If you think Parler does a poor job of moderation and stuff being said on there offends you, guess what, don't download the app and don't use it. Second: As far as ampli…

> Lets start off there, anything related to violence/physical harm has no place, anything else, its totally fair game, and is protected by the 1st amendment.

I assume you mean is -not- protected.

> If you think Parler does a poor job of moderation and stuff being said on there offends you, guess what, don't download the app and don't use it.

And if Apple thinks they're doing a poor job, don't post it in their app store? Or should Apple be constrained somehow and forced to carry it?

If Apple thinks the violent content on Parler is out of control and needs moderation, isn't that Apple's own decision? If you don't like Apple's choice of what content to curate in their app store, "then guess what, don't buy an Apple phone and use the app store"? OR should you have more recourse beyond this?

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#283

Post by neogodless »

subsubzero wrote: post #165

I don't understand what people don't get about the 1st amendment. A right to free speech, is set in stone in the US Constitution, a private company can enforce their own censorship, but having a company that wants to have the 1st amendment and is being forced to be shut down is not what the US is about. Threats and actions to commit treason should be handled by authorities and prosecuted. But someone saying they don'…

> But someone saying they don't believe the election results should not be silenced. Its their right to free speech and the US constitution guarantees it.

When the people in power, the government, falsely claim that the election should not be trusted, and the people should ignore all other sources of information because any other source of information but those approved by the government are "fake news", the government should be silenced and the people should reject it. Otherwise, those in power can maintain their power indefinitely, with no reason or facts allowed to dispute why they must be kept in power.

> major media and almost all journalists saying Russia stole/meddled with our election

I read what I (perhaps incorrectly) assume you consider "major media" - Reuters, AP News. I have not seen anything about the 2016 election since, well... early 2017? Don't remember but it's been a very long time. Of course, the Mueller report validates aspects of those claims, but I never thought the election was stolen - just interfered with.

> The whole reason you had a bunch of desperate crazies storming congress

.. is because people take all their information from a narrow source of information that has been repeated and spread across right-wing media and social media, despite many of those messages not being accurate. When you believe the people in power telling you "I'm on your side, and the other side is evil, and they are trying to take away our power", then you have a bunch of desperate crazies.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#284

Post by whatshisface »

AshleyGrant wrote: post #217
whatshisface wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of higher steps, just look at US history. For example, the mob could murder someone. In the bad old days of civil rights resistance, the mob would regularly engage in homicide against targets they thought were upsetting their power.

They DID murder someone. US Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick.

Although his death was tragic, it was not an example of the targeted political murders that have occurred in America's past. To put this in context, take a look at some of the other riots that Wikipedians have co-categorized with the 2021 Capitol riot. We should not think of things like the Lincoln assassination as if they are mere founding myths - they happened, were perpetrated by humans with the same nature, and we are all descendants of the people alive at the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:White_American_riots_...

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#285

Post by input_sh »

nailer wrote: post #93
YarickR2 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if /s is omitted intentionally, or it eas never meant to be there

Are you saying that people on the far left don't state that anyone that disagrees with them is a fascist?

Yes.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#286

Post by beerandt »

eloff wrote: post #145
decebalus1 wrote: post #30

Before anyone starts complaining about censorship or free speech in the context of the first amendment, I'll just leave this here: https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18682099/supreme-court-ru... Along with the actual text from the constition: AMENDMENT I Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or…

The first amendment doesn't apply to private platforms or spaces. Perhaps it should when those platforms develop monopoly levels of control over distribution.

The 14th amendment applies right now, as is. It's as much of a civil rights issue as it is freedom of speech.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#287

Post by Laarlf »

alacombe wrote: post #26
newfeatureok wrote: post #15

I'm honestly curious - where is the line drawn between a service being used to do "questionable" things and it being removed? We can all agree, for example, that the internet at large enables many bad things, but I doubt any of us would ban the internet (though in other countries this happens). What about reddit? A specific subreddit? A specific post? A specific user? A specific post by a specific user at a specific…

> I'm honestly curious - where is the line drawn between a service being used to do "questionable" things and it being removed? Whether or not it's "right leaning".

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic but i feel this comment.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#288

Post by Mountain_Skies »

obiefernandez wrote: post #235
caconym_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is “the other route”? They are being deplatformed because their speech is violent and damaging—in many cases it’s literal incitement to violence. Their legal cases are being rejected because they have no legal merit. The mainstream media refuse to take them seriously because they have again and again shown themselves to be bad faith actors, peddlers of unsubstantiated conspiracy, outright liars, and so on. I don…

This is a great point that is not made often enough. The logical conclusion is that the de-platformed actors get mad enough that they start lashing out in criminal ways, doing stuff that gets them locked up or killed, or otherwise "de-platformed" in real life. There's some short term pain, but ultimately society has a net win. Convince me I'm wrong...

Remember your post when things don't end up going down the path you think you've expertly designed for your preferred outcome. When you ask "why is this happening?", know that you were part of the reason why things ended up the way they end up.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#289

Post by yuchi »

mlyle wrote: post #248
yuchi wrote: post #213

A fairly famous italian band[1] has a line in one of their songs which I cannot shake off me: > Mi sono rotto il cazzo che non sono d’accordo con te / ma morirei affinché tu possa dire la tua stronzata which translates to: > I’m fucking sick of the fact that I do not agree with you / but I would die for you to be able to express your bullshits. The news at hand give me hope that the US (and the world by extension) is…

I mean, that's just rewording Evelyn Hall's restatement of Voltaire, isn't it? "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Completely unaware of. Thank you. Once again my ignorance shines.

Re: Apple has threatened to ban Parler from the App Store

#290

Post by WindyLakeReturn »

varjag wrote: post #37
vimy wrote: post #28

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[flagged]

Turns out that isn't exactly the case. While Nazis were thrown into Soviet concertation camps, it didn't stop there and did not turn out 'kind of fine' for many innocent people who later shared a similar fate.

>A study published by the German government in 1974 estimated the number of German civilian victims of crimes during expulsion of Germans after World War II between 1945 and 1948 to be over 600,000, with about 400,000 deaths in the areas east of Oder and Neisse (ca. 120,000 in acts of direct violence, mostly by Soviet troops but also by Poles, 60,000 in Polish and 40,000 in Soviet concentration camps or prisons mostly from hunger and disease, and 200,000 deaths among civilian deportees to forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union), 130,000 in Czechoslovakia (thereof 100,000 in camps) and 80,000 in Yugoslavia (thereof 15,000 to 20,000 from violence outside of and in camps and 59,000 deaths from hunger and disease in camps).

>Some German prisoners were released soon after the war. Many others, however, remained in the GULAG long after the surrender of Nazi Germany. Among the most famous German POWs to die in Soviet captivity was Captain Wilm Hosenfeld, who died of injuries, sustained possibly under torture, in a concentration camp near Stalingrad in 1952.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

Edit: Removed some grammar that was too redundant on review.

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