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Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

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Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#651

Post by tdaltonc »

zionic wrote: post #195
manfredo wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Agreed - though I find it's more of a headache than scary. On end, I don't like the fact that increasingly internet infrastructure is acting as a de facto judge in deciding what speech is and isn't allowed. I empathize with both parties. ISPs don't want to host speech they feel is abhorr…

> ISPs don't want to host speech they feel is abhorrent But where does this end? Does the phone company want to allow conversations they find morally reprehensible? Does apple want to send iMessages that denigrate their company? After all, they are private companies! /s

It ends where we decide that it ends. There is no slippery slope here. The protections for political speech and the cultural values around speech are incredibly high friction surfaces! If anything the slope is towards free space and historically, any curtainments of it have been temporarily.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#652

Post by AlexandrB »

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

I think part of the problem is that on many issues elections are already irrelevant. If I'm an American and I want the US to withdraw from Afghanistan, who do I vote for?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#653

Post by cygx »

zdragnar wrote: post #438
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chapo hipsters buy fixies, not AR-15s. You're not going to kidnap the Speaker of the House, or murder a Senator with a gearless bicycle.

Until they throw moltov cocktails and explosives, or set buildings on fire, or permanently blind you with a high powered laser. Use of violent tactics is not particlarly novel on either side

But note that as far as the US is concerned, in the past couple of decades, right wing extremists have killed a significantly greater number of people than left-wing extremists (eg. the CSIS credits them with 90% of all extremist killings in the timeframe 2018/19). They also lead by number of plots - though by body count, Islamist terror still takes the lead for the obvious reasons.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#654

Post by aaronbrethorst »

timwaagh wrote: post #627
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chapo hipsters buy fixies, not AR-15s. You're not going to kidnap the Speaker of the House, or murder a Senator with a gearless bicycle.

Not in the USA they don't. But in Venezuela it's a different story.

I don't think there's a large audience for Brooklyn hipster leftist podcasts in Caracas.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#655

Post by young_unixer »

slothtrop wrote: post #520
young_unixer wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If service providers want to deplatform centers of radicalization, I think that's ok. The thing is: left-wing radicalization is tolerated by the platforms, but right-wing radicalization isn't.

The day the bulk of far-left idealists advocate violence and racism, they won't be tolerated either.

> The day the bulk of far-left idealists advocate violence and racism

You mean everyday?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#656

Post by grkvlt »

beerandt wrote: post #571
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just yesterday HN had a link to an article on plaintext HTTP for the modern era. I'm not condoning illegal/dubious attempts to silence dissent, but loss of an SSL cert doesn't really suppress anyone's ability to communicate. Tell me I'm wrong.

1) Browsers no longer let you (easily/ 2-click) override some ssl errors, and the overwhelming trend has been to start treating a lack of https similar to an ssl error, as far as ui goes. 2) Is this practically any different than saying newsgroups, or even bbs(?), still exist, so those avenues for free speech are viable remedies for being otherwise suppressed.

1. seems unlikely. I don't think there's any mainstream browser that presents http://myrandomsite.whatever/ as an SSL error, in the same way as, say https://google.com/ having an invalid certificate, nor is there ever likely to be.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#657

Post by jakelazaroff »

bra-ket wrote: post #635
ng12 wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> drag you deeper into the rabbit hole of extremism This is what banning /r/the_donald and now /r/donaldtrump did. It doesn't stop the users from believing what they believe, it just further isolates them in an echo changer while simultaneously reinforcing the belief that the liberal media is "out to get them".

I'd argue it further isolates users in those liberal echo-chambers from hearing a different opinion. Given the heavy left leaning media bias it leads to free speech being free as long as it doesn't disagree with the 'party line'. I.e. the same dynamics as in communist Soviet Union where 'enemies of the people' were ostracized and persecuted by totalitarian regime.

Perhaps we should leave up ISIS recruitment videos, so users in liberal echo chambers can hear that differing opinion as well. /s

This is not a new or exciting phenomenon. Censorship and “cancel culture” have rich histories on all sides of the American political spectrum.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#658

Post by forserious »

blueblob wrote: post #632
CyberRabbi wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you scared of the women’s March murdering you after they “stormed” the capitol? https://twitter.com/EgSophie/status/1048634940169048064?s=20

In this false equivalence you're trying to make, did the people in the women's march come with zip ties to kidnap congressmen? Did they come to interfere with the electoral process? Did they steal? Were they violent?

You're right to call this false equivalence.

I think it's a mistake to argue the specifics. The parent comment here is arguing in bad faith.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#659

Post by saynay »

yxwvut wrote: post #543
maxlamb wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How did it let you slip into extremism?

Repeated exposure to things you know to be false or to bad arguments has been shown many times to shift your beliefs towards those false beliefs. It effectively wears your mind's defenses down. This 'repeat a lie enough and it becomes the truth' idea is a Trump specialty: 'Crooked Hillary', the wall, voter fraud, etc. Re: extermism, the far right's arguments are bad but if you're not actively exposed to counterargume…

Indeed. Repetition of phrases, images, or ideas - regardless of their truth - is the basis of propaganda and brainwashing.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#660

Post by jandrese »

rightbyte wrote: post #415
jandrese wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the Amiga effect. The smaller a group is the more radical the membership. Having thedonald.win be a cesspool isn't all bad. If someone is on the fence and goes to check it out their first reaction is likely to be of disgust, especially if the userbase is hostile to "noobs" because they're paranoid about infiltration.

Does that apply to an existing community? Why not "coup it" like Reddit did with the Covid-subs and enforce nicer rules.

It is most visible in communities that are shrinking, especially if they were originally very large. Moderate members slowly filter out for one reason or another until only the die hards are left.
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