Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#471

Post by gfodor » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

simias wrote: post #368

gfodor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

These website clearly radicalize some people. I too lurk from time to time on thedonald.win and far-right subreddits, you can see that over there reality is completely distorted, calls to violence are constant and they just feed off each other's insecurities, fears and hate. Nothing good comes out of these places, regardless of where in the political spectrum you position yourself (except maybe downright fascists). L…

You claim "nothing good comes out of these places" - that's a strong claim to make. Here's my argument: having this stuff out in the open does have benefits.

Most people lurk. Lurking these sites has a lot of benefits despite the risk of being drawn into radicalization:

- It allows you to truly understand the motives of these kinds of people, and predict what they will do.

- Understanding these motives allows you to address root causes that lead to this extremism. For every radical who storms the capitol, there are a thousand people who have slightly watered down but directionally parallel beliefs. This is good to understand so you can contribute to finding solutions to any justifiable grievances motivating their higher order beliefs (some won't be justified, some will), to help pull them in the other direction.

- Seeing this stuff full-on and not heard about through second hand accounts demystifies it. There are people like yourself who look at this, get a sense of revulsion from it, and then that both hardens their mind away from it and also motivates them to counteract it when they see people in their own lives starting to echo similar sentiments. If you don't truly grok the mental models these people have, you lack the prerequisites needed to disarm any version of them in the minds of people you care about. This isn't a sure thing, but anyone who doesn't will have no effect.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#472

Post by MereInterest » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

disown wrote: post #279

MereInterest wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popularity does not imply morality. 46.8% of people voted for Donald Trump (not "quite literally 1/2"), a man who is a known fraud, morally bankrupt in business and personal life, and who has shown himself to be incompetent in office. People who voted for Donald Trump should be ashamed of their vote. That said, reading what people are saying in an effort to understand and to de-radicalize is not something to be asham…

> a man who is a known fraud, morally bankrupt in business and personal life, and who has shown himself to be incompetent in office. Are you talking about donald trump or joe biden? > People who voted for Donald Trump should be ashamed of their vote. Using your logic, those who voted for corrupt biden should be ashamed as well. > That said, reading what people are saying in an effort to understand and to de-radicaliz…

I'm rather tired of the "both sides" rhetoric. One candidate refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power. One candidate has a history of racial bias (Central Park 5, apartment zoning, Judge Curiel, etc.). One candidate openly asked for and received aid from a foreign nation. One candidate built up a mob and pointed them at the Capitol in an attempted coup.

On the other hand, one candidate lost a son to drug overdose. One candidate had debunked conspiracy theories regarding their other son's interactions with Ukraine.

Do I think that Biden is perfect? Gosh, no. Do I think he is a good person? I don't know if it is possible to be a truly good person while holding any high office. Do I think that Biden is a better person and a better choice than Trump? Absolutely.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#473

Post by lukifer » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #287

x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people screaming "Free Speech" are well aware of the content and viewpoints espoused by sites like Parler and T_D. The fact of the matter is that they are supportive of people being killed and white supremacist autocracy being installed.

I don't know what "T_D" is, but Parler doesn't "espouse" anything. It was founded as an alternative to the social media companies that are de-platforming right wing voices. That doesn't mean more than a tiny percentage on Parler are "supportive of people being killed". Actually I'd like to see some examples - have not yet seen anyone there advocate for violence. Parler actually does remove such postings so if you see…

T_D === /r/The_Donald. It's since migrated to thedonald dot win; however vile the content, one of the virtues of the censorship-resistant open web is that we're able to keep tabs on what they're discussing. They were extremely unsubtle regarding their plans for the 6th; if anything, we're lucky that it didn't result in even more violence.

I agree, that it's unfair to (a-priori) castigate free-speech-absolutist platforms; there are good-faith, civil-libertarian reasons for them to exist. Nonetheless, they inherently act as a moth-flame to specifically those people that are banned from more mainstream platforms; after all, what motivation would non-controversial communities have to migrate? I absolutely the right of such platforms to exist, but from Voat, to Gab, to now Parler, in practice they quickly skew towards conspiracies and "hate speech" and the like.

I consider SSC's heterodox "Culture War Thread" [0] to be the canonical case study in this pattern: "It's very easy to remove spam, bots, racial slurs, low-effort trolls, and abuse... But once you remove all those things, you're left with people honestly and civilly arguing for their opinions. And that's the scariest thing of all."

[0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/02/22/rip-culture-war-thread...

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#474

Post by shimonabi » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

typon wrote: post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

I've been lurking on that web site since before the riot and it had the most extreme content. Law enforcement should get involved.

They were openly writing about throwing liberals off helicopters etc...

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#475

Post by lldbg » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #377

gbrown wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which, it probably goes without saying, should scare the shit out of anyone who cares about the principles of the free Internet. I worry more about Google et. al. killing the free and open internet by creating centralized walled gardens. I worry more about legislative attacks on encryption, about the overzealous use of copyright law and the sorry state of intellectual property generally. If service providers want t…

>If service providers want to deplatform centers of radicalization, I think that's ok. The fact that there is widespread support, let alone demand, for subjective, unaccountable censorship is frightening. You don't understand this, "war on domestic terror" will include legislative attacks on encryption? That bad actors always use, create and amplify perceived crisis to expand their power and permanently erode our rig…

There was this blogpost a while back which I can't seem to find, suggesting that the division is between:

* people who view democracy as a set of values, and if you do not share those values then you are against democracy.

* people who view democracy as the democratic principles (voting, representation, freedom of assembly, and so on)...

In my world (I belong to the second group) democracy is freedom of speech, the exchange of ideas, and coming face to face with values and opinions that you do not agree with (in fact you may find them abhorrent), and thinking that that's the whole point.

I found it an enlightening take on the situation, and thought that I'd share it here.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#476

Post by FalconSensei » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #455

bythckr wrote: post #315

This is not an original idea/thought that I have, but feel repeating it is vital: This whole censorship crusade that the Facebook, twitter & now reddit is on is a dangerous precedence we are setting for our society. Whatever they call it, this is censorship. Already due to AI suggesting similar contents on services like Facebook & Youtube and the design of sub-reddits on reddit, we have living inside echo chambers. A…

> Whatever they call it, this is censorship. By definition it is not. Only governments can censor. This is just a private entity making a decision. You have the right to say what you want, but I don't have to let you into my living room to say it.

Specially if:

1 - The community was repeatedly infringing the TOS.

2 - Reddit has liability to what's being posted on it

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#477

Post by cheeze » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #13

The cynic in me can't help but notice that all these platforms are suddenly growing a backbone now that we know Democrats will control both the executive and legislative branches.

Didn't Reddit literally get called out for "reddit conspiracies" from a senator recently?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#478

Post by wnevets » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

onehair wrote: post #374

wnevets wrote: post #249

The irony of people complaining about free speech and censorship when this happens is if you post ANYTHING even remotely against the current narrative in those subs you will be immediately banned by mods. You can literally quote trump word for word in /r/conservative and get banned if it happens to go against today's collective reality. Rules for thee but not for me is the modus operandi and Wednesday was just an ext…

It's one thing for a mod in a forum to ban someone, as it sometimes only represents the opinions of that mod, and maybe be backed by rules (and trends) It's another thing for social media to do it. although they are all private companies, they remain a very global big force, that do not have reach only in the US, but are global and can do the same and affect many countries and politics across the globe. Soon, if not…

> It's another thing for social media to do it.

Why? Removing a subreddit isn't the same as banning a user.

A ban is a ban is a ban.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#479

Post by MauranKilom » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #262

michaelmrose wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wonder why they are threatened consider parler and the things people post there. Please forgive the language it is verbatim and I think threats of violence are more offensive than bad words. > You had better be ready partriots! It is go time very soon. We must attack all central communications to big cities are democratic cities. Fiber optics telecom bridges supply routes we can starve those motherfuckers to d…

> "the things people post there" You mean, the things a tiny handful of people post there. Most posters are center-right and don't advocate violence. I would also note that there's been plenty of talk of violence against conservatives on left-leaning platforms, Twitter especially but many others. These people are never called out even if they talk about "rounding them up and putting them in camps" and similar Nazi-li…

> You mean, the things a tiny handful of people post there. Most posters are center-right and don't advocate violence.

Do they also condemn or apply moderation to violence being advocated? Or is it condoned? Honest question, I have not even remotely invested enough time (nor do I plan to do so) to understand this facet.

> I've reported lots of such tweets and sometimes they're taken down, other times, not.

I agree that such messages should be taken down and condemned just the same.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#480

Post by bcrosby95 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:24 PM UTC

elefanten wrote: post #341

Ericson2314 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact the capital got stormed has more to do with the Trumpist sympathize of the Police, then the protesters themselves. If the were a "normal" police reaction (say midway between BLM and this, like in Hong Kong), they would have never gotten inside, and this would be a non-story. Going after Trump fans is just center-left back-slapping, and all the worse because ignoring the police partisanship is extremely reckl…

The evidence more supports the thesis that security was underprepared and blundered into this outcome rather than a conspiracy to allow it. Have you not seen the videos of officers swarmed and overwhelmed, being attacked and beaten? Are you saying the police pulled a "false flag" on themselves? Seems like a Trumpist argument.

Yes. They had to fallback because they didn't have enough police there. Then there's videos of masses of people trying to push their way past masses of police at the entryways to the capitol building. Including rioters using pepper spray.

Police on the ground were overwhelmed. Congress was asking for help. Rioters that were screaming stuff like "Hang mike pence" got to within a hundred feet of the the vast majority of the leaders of our country. Local governors asked permission to intervene from the man that incited it all - whose political opponents rioters were bearing down upon. Permission that was denied.

The more I think about it the more fucked up it all is. January 6th could have been fucking devastating for the country. And lots of people don't seem to really give a shit. We're one step removed from a banana republic.