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Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

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Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#411

Post by tootie »

throwaway45349 wrote: post #284
tootie wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last place I worked paid hard-earned money during a recession to migrate their properties off of CloudFlare because they were providing CDN services to the Proud Boys and the CEO had made some equivocal statement that they didn't think it was their responsibility to police content. It's an interesting topic and possibly a genuine slippery slope about what sort of responsibility service providers have over their c…

You're joking, right? I for one am proud of Cloudflare for taking a stand against cancel culture, because one of these days it could hit you or me and I want to support people who will stand in behind me in the name of free speech.

Is "cancel culture" defined as being anti-Nazi or something? "Cancelling" is absolutely an expression of free speech.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#412

Post by Dylan16807 »

jakearmitage wrote: post #325
gruez wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action . Not saying what happened on /r/donaldtrump actually met that criteria (that's up to a court to decide), but the precedent to silence people (by the government no less) is definitely there.

So you are against the freedom of speech principle?

If you think it can't have exceptions, do you think libel and slander laws are a travesty?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#413

Post by andybak »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #311
BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

Exactly. There are dangerous extremists on both ends of the spectrum, but God forbid you want to assess the entire landscape in some forums. You're just mocked for being some kind of centrist , as if not being a slobbering partisan is a character flaw.

I'm a centrist by instinct and by UK standards.

Unfortunately that would probably put me in the "radical leftist" bracket according to current US discourse.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#414

Post by jcranmer »

gfodor wrote: post #270
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You may be reading too much into what I wrote. My standard here is simply that I think if a website is literally organizing something which explicitly, literally, supports violent overthrow of the government, then I'm going to yield to the legal system to enforce whatever laws exist to properly regulate that speech. I don't have a strong opinion beyond that since I am not a lawyer. My point is that if the mechanism t…

I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but in the US, the current standard for free speech (Brandenburg v Ohio) holds that literally advocating for violent overthrow of the government is constitutionally-protected free speech. The bar that you have to hit is incitement to "imminent lawless action." This standard of free speech is much higher than most of the rest of the world.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#415

Post by rightbyte »

jandrese wrote: post #160
dragontamer wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groups becoming more extreme when they exodus is fine and part of the calculus. The reason to take it off of Reddit is to prevent more followers from joining up with them. Stormfront is extreme and everyone knows about them. (Literally a white-nationalist website). But without a foothold on Reddit, they lack the ability to gain followers. When LUE was banned from GameFAQs decades ago, they just formed up their own gr…

It's the Amiga effect. The smaller a group is the more radical the membership. Having thedonald.win be a cesspool isn't all bad. If someone is on the fence and goes to check it out their first reaction is likely to be of disgust, especially if the userbase is hostile to "noobs" because they're paranoid about infiltration.

Does that apply to an existing community? Why not "coup it" like Reddit did with the Covid-subs and enforce nicer rules.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#416

Post by gfodor »

cercatrova wrote: post #353
andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

This is the paradox of tolerance. We can tolerate having a free internet but if it leads to the intolerant taking over and making everything worse, we need to be intolerant of them now, not later.

A witty saying proves nothing, and in this case it particularly doesn't since you seem you do not know what else was being said when it was written by its author.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#417

Post by throwaway316943 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41
ravenstine wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the danger in going to such lengths to shut down disagreeable viewpoints. People say "make your own website", but that becomes a race to the bottom when we start politicizing server hosts and ISPs. When you completely shut people up, that doesn't mean they're gone, and now you don't know what they're thinking. Meanwhile you're actually tyrannical because a monopoly on information makes the mass 80% believe tha…

What other options do you have if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories? It's like trying to pull someone out of a cult like Scientology. Of course, attempt to engage to improve the situation and help someone obtain ground truth on their own from legitimate information sources, but when it's obviously hopeless insulate yoursel…

Look at history, it’s just one damn tragedy after another and all without the supposedly super powerful influence of internet filter bubbles and radicalization. The internet isn’t the problem, this is just what humans do. Every age has blamed their problems on the latest technology while being willfully blind to the problems within their own minds. You can’t fight this with censorship or gatekeeping or trusted news sources, trying to force your beliefs on other people just adds to the misery because you’re flawed and ignorant too, everyone is.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#418

Post by onehair »

ModernMech wrote: post #332
onehair wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no difference. Both groups are rioters. There is also plain hypocrisy in both camps, when one camp riots, the other camp pretends not to understand that there is festering anger from injustice. But every time, whenever one camps riots, they feel justified and righteous, and the opposing camp, feels enlightened as to and justified in retaliation. WOKE is bad. EXTREME privilege is bad. Finding common ground an…

Were both houses of Congress and the VP certifying the vote of the next PoTUS at the Pizza Hut? No? Then there's a big difference.

Maybe if they'd do their meetings at Pizza Hut, at least they would start coming closer to common folk.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#419

Post by dageshi »

zaroth wrote: post #177
dijit wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rub is always: association with the group is association with the worst of that group. Their worst right now is much worse than expected, I would be ashamed to be associated.

I don’t paint every Democrat as a supporter of the violence and property damage that happened over the summer. I think the vast, vast majority of people believe in non-violent protest and giving people room to express their views and hurt and frustration in non-violent ways. I think politicians and the media is largely responsible for trying to paint groups they don’t like with an overly broad brush, and we should ou…

There seems to be a poll floating around that 45% of republicans supported the storming of capitol hill. Of course polls can be twisted to deceive, but if we take that at face value, that is not a small "fringe"?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#420

Post by bfieidhbrjr »

ianbutler wrote: post #351
michaelmrose wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you wonder why they are threatened consider parler and the things people post there. Please forgive the language it is verbatim and I think threats of violence are more offensive than bad words. > You had better be ready partriots! It is go time very soon. We must attack all central communications to big cities are democratic cities. Fiber optics telecom bridges supply routes we can starve those motherfuckers to d…

I am of the potentially unpopular mindset that we need to get our hands dirty to preserve our freedoms from these people. Worrying about being a gatekeeper when these people gladly, and openly, threaten our peace and lives is ridiculous. Let's shut them down, shut them out and generally rebuke them. History shows that higher order ideals generally need to be preserved with actions when words have failed, and make no…

I agree but there are 300 million in the US. The actual insurrectionists are like... 200 people? Maybe 2,000?

Shutting down anyone talking pro trump in the whole country will have downsides, and just make them more angry. Prohibition isn't an answer that will work.

Hopefully sending all of the insurrectionists to jail will help.

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