Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#381

Post by jasonlotito » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

We aren't. But one is the POTUS and is the leader of one of the two major parties in the US. So, let's calm down on the both sides arguments.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#382

Post by afuchs » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

jakearmitage wrote: post #325

gruez wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action . Not saying what happened on /r/donaldtrump actually met that criteria (that's up to a court to decide), but the precedent to silence people (by the government no less) is definitely there.

So you are against the freedom of speech principle?

Is everything supposed to be black and white?

Following the arguments put forth in the rest of this thread, it is possible to support free speech while still arguing for exceptions and being against free speech absolutism.

Such an argument against an entire whole does not logically follow from the given argument that specific exception should be made.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#383

Post by baumandm » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #253

mr_coleman wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love doom scrolling as much as the next guy, just make sure to get some mind bleach. Find a nice fiction podcast or take up electronics. Both sides will consume your mental health if your not careful.

I'm actually looking for a good podcast. Do you have any recommendations?

Our Fake History -- it's a historian deep-diving into various historical myths, their origins, and the scholarly consensus around the truth (at least as we understand it).

It's utterly fascinating.

http://ourfakehistory.com/

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#384

Post by gremlinsinc » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

logicslave wrote: post #309

vmchale wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think everyone's just tired of his shit.

He got 70 million votes

Point? Biden got 7-8 million more. It's over.

Him bringing EC faith into the open, actually hurts GOP for decades if the EC is removed, they'll never win again. It's been a very very long time since GOP has won popular vote. Their entire future rides or dies on the E.C. unless they can become a big tent party, and regain people who have left the party.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#385

Post by commandlinefan » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #233

thotsBgone wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Example?

Back when I was a kid the red-headed step children of the Internet were the warez, neo-nazi, « revolutionary » (read bomb-making), spam and snuff sites. I'm probably missing a few categories. And that's just the contentious stuff. There are things that even the most zealous free speech maniacs would have a hard time convincing themselves should be allowed even a modicum of publicity. Child porn is the most blatant on…

So you're literally using banning child porn to justify banning political discussion: exactly what free speech advocates predicted when censorship hit the internet.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#386

Post by blisterpeanuts » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

watwut wrote: post #211

jakearmitage wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories Why do you want to go to great lengths and "educate" people on your point of view?

Because otherwise they will try to overturn elections and install one party state. Or because their opinions leads them to construct bombs or shoot people.

> "Or because their opinions leads them to construct bombs or shoot people."

Who exactly is "they"? Anyone who disagrees with you? Anyone who votes for a Republican candidate? Trump supporters? Some subset of Trump supporters who say the election was fraudulent? What about Trump supporters who say the election MAY have been fraudulent -- do they also get silenced?

This is a slippery slope. You either have freedom of speech, or you don't. Muzzling people who have ideas you consider dangerous has a way of blowing back in your face; in fact it almost guarantees violence, when people feel they are not allowed to vent.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#387

Post by ModernMech » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

elefanten wrote: post #341

Ericson2314 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact the capital got stormed has more to do with the Trumpist sympathize of the Police, then the protesters themselves. If the were a "normal" police reaction (say midway between BLM and this, like in Hong Kong), they would have never gotten inside, and this would be a non-story. Going after Trump fans is just center-left back-slapping, and all the worse because ignoring the police partisanship is extremely reckl…

The evidence more supports the thesis that security was underprepared and blundered into this outcome rather than a conspiracy to allow it. Have you not seen the videos of officers swarmed and overwhelmed, being attacked and beaten? Are you saying the police pulled a "false flag" on themselves? Seems like a Trumpist argument.

This doesn't explain why the Governor of Maryland was prohibited from moving its troops into DC by the Pentagon while Senators were begging for backup; and why it took Pence, who was in the middle of the siege, to make the call.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#388

Post by jjulius » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

PenguinCoder wrote: post #192

mywittyname wrote: post #48

At this point, why bother? The damage was done years ago and these groups have already largely jumped ship to their own self-hosted platforms. Doing this now makes me think their leadership are all cowards, at best. It reveals that leadership knew this step should have been done a long time ago, but failed to act due to fear. Had they left it alone, at least we could have all bought into this BS notion that it was du…

It's always been too little, too late. Saving face , or finally got enough complaints from advertisers.

"Well, now that everyone else is doing it, we won't face as much heat, so..."

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#389

Post by d1zzy » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:09 PM UTC

proverbialbunny wrote: post #172

mschuster91 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the Trump train themselves, but there are definitely a lot of libertarians on here who believe in absolute free speech - a position that is seen as borderline ridiculous from an European (specifically: German) perspective.

That's refreshing to hear. I'm not pro manipulative speech (and manipulative news), but in the US free speech is seen as a very strong positive culturally, regardless where you are on the political spectrum.

We'll see if that attitude changes once the US has a one or two ethnic/cultural genocides that was preceded by a lot of hate speech against said ethnic/cultural groups.

That is to say, the US attitude towards free speech is not somehow the result of some very wise collective, it simply hasn't had the history to affect its attitude towards it in the same way that European countries have.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#390

Post by thatguy0900 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 7:10 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

Noone cares anymore about the left rioting