Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump” • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#301

Post by im3w1l » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #112

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #36

I just checked out http://thedonald.win/ and it has gotten a lot more extreme since it was moved off Reddit. I think it would have not gotten as extreme if it were in the Reddit ecosystem still.

Groups becoming more extreme when they exodus is fine and part of the calculus. The reason to take it off of Reddit is to prevent more followers from joining up with them. Stormfront is extreme and everyone knows about them. (Literally a white-nationalist website). But without a foothold on Reddit, they lack the ability to gain followers. When LUE was banned from GameFAQs decades ago, they just formed up their own gr…

What / who is LUE?

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#302

Post by mhh__ » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

tharne wrote: post #56

slg wrote: post #13

The cynic in me can't help but notice that all these platforms are suddenly growing a backbone now that we know Democrats will control both the executive and legislative branches.

Companies don't have morals, they have interests. You're just being realistic.

That is true, but the chain of command for a decision like this isn't that large - in the long run a company is dominated by economics, but you still have to understand that those decisions are implemented by people.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#303

Post by afuchs » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

gpm wrote: post #95

toomuchtodo wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other options do you have if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories? It's like trying to pull someone out of a cult like Scientology. Of course, attempt to engage to improve the situation and help someone obtain ground truth on their own from legitimate information sources, but when it's obviously hopeless insulate yoursel…

What I would prefer is removing moderators, aggressively fighting bots, and putting reasonably neutral parties in the moderation position. The second part of that is hard/expensive, but it is a path forwards to some level of discourse between the people using these subreddits and everyone else. Driving these communities to different sites means that people get in much stronger filter bubbles, that's probably not a go…

A problem that has demonstrability arisen with even neutral moderation is that, no matter the moderation criteria, a vocal subset of those who are affected by that moderation will still complain loudly about being censored. This applies even to moderators removing death threats and calls to violence. There are many examples of complaints that doing so is censorship even though it is hard to make a good faith argument against the justifications for removing such posts.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#304

Post by FireBeyond » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

rglover wrote: post #141

nikolay wrote: post #61

So, what's the goal? Force Trump supporters to build their own social media?! When I see the growth of Parler, how is this helping the already struggling Twitter, Reddit, etc. I don't really get why technology companies want to get involved in the policing business - how is this helping their bottom line? Are they business or activists pretending to be businesses?

Pay attention to the narrative shift: it went from "build your own platform," to now calls for removing those alternatives entirely ( https://twitter.com/slpng_giants/status/1347522919992336387 ). The end goal is total censorship.

The end goal is cessation of real and specific incitements to violence against people and property, and planning thereof.

Much as you like to spin it, if there weren't notable, repeated documented cases of idiots on Parler coordinating protests and outright violence, then no-one would really give a shit.

Making this out to be "the left wants to remove our ability to speak whatsoever" is not a "narrative shift", it's your conjecture.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#305

Post by fl0wenol » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

proverbialbunny wrote: post #159

lostlogin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have a read though this and other related threads. It’s been surprising to me.

I'm an active reader of threads on YC, and maybe I'm just lucky but I have yet to see anyone spouting MAGA based conspiracy theories. I did get downvoted one time for saying Trump invented the term Antifa (Which is absolutely true. I did a google search by date to verify.) but that's as close as I've seen.

I think you got downvoted because the term/group Antifa has existed in several forms since the 30s, it was a movement started in Germany in response to the rise of the SPD between WWI and WWII.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#306

Post by nucleardog » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

As soon as those people take action and start murdering all the landlords, absolutely.

Speech is speech, when that speech begets action then we have a problem.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#307

Post by aaronbrethorst » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #259

andrewem wrote: post #232

You know what scares the shit out of me, to use your phrasing? The people on that site murdering me or overthrowing the government, so that they seize power and elections end or become irrelevant. “The free Internet” has value, but it’s not the only thing that has value. When it conflicts with other values, then there has to be a nuanced resolution.

Have you ever spent time on the leftist "tankie" / "Chapo trap house" kind of subreddits? Or the Gen Zedong groups that glorify the purge of landlords during the communist revolution in China? If we are really going to go after such people wanting to violently overthrow the government we can't be ignoring the left when they do it.

Chapo hipsters buy fixies, not AR-15s. You're not going to kidnap the Speaker of the House, or murder a Senator with a gearless bicycle.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#308

Post by cbg0 » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

stronglikedan wrote: post #53

Exuma wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please cite me tweets/descriptions of where he incited anything. He said something like "we will remember this day," and not long after condemned violence and supported law enforcement. Then the next day he condemned it again.

> Please cite me tweets/descriptions of where he incited anything. It's not gonna happen, because it didn't happen. I've asked everyone I know to cite the same thing, and no one has been able to. Of course, that won't stop the narrative, because truth has become irrelevant. EDIT: I find it amusing that even the people that have responded to you so far, still haven't actually cited anything yet.

You're either lazy or willfully ignorant, here's him showing support for the protest in some deleted tweets:

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13450881...

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13469549...

https://media-cdn.factba.se/realdonaldtrump-twitter/13469004...

Here's a video that he posted after the events at the capitol that was deleted where he keeps suggesting the election was stolen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcfcTB9-S2s

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#309

Post by logicslave » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

vmchale wrote: post #237

slg wrote: post #13

The cynic in me can't help but notice that all these platforms are suddenly growing a backbone now that we know Democrats will control both the executive and legislative branches.

I think everyone's just tired of his shit.

He got 70 million votes

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#310

Post by s3r3nity » Fri, Jan 08, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #260

s3r3nity wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Groups becoming more extreme when they exodus is fine and part of the calculus. The reason to take it off of Reddit is to prevent more followers from joining up with them. Is this really any better than religious idealogues burning books that aren't its Bibles, lest people get tempted to reject their faith or question their ideologies? Or North Korea blocking any information about capitalist successes, lest that ca…

"Censorship" seems to work pretty well around here in HackerNews. When someone's opinion becomes violent or unhelpful, the mods around here will delete their post, curtailing discussion and making this area more reasonable for overall discourse to move forward. There are unreasonable opinions and unreasonable people out there. The only possible weapon online groups have to combat unreasonable people in a discussion f…

Successes to an ends for censorship doesn't make it any more ethical.

China is a pretty strong economy right now - that doesn't make the CCP's aggressive forms of censorship any more just or ethical.