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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#991

Post by memorybadger »

ako wrote: post #400
_qulr wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people do it to themselves. They believe what they want to believe, hear what they want to hear, see what they want to see. This is still largely a free country where there are multiple independent sources of "news", and individuals voluntarily expose themselves or not to whatever they choose. As far as I know, nobody is tied down in a chair and forced to watch certain TV shows or listen to certain radio shows fo…

Agree that this is nothing new. Manipulation of people through misinformation has been the rule for a long time. What do you think religion is? Manipulation of people through misinformation to coerce people into behavior which benefits society.

Truth is required to act freely. Freedom requires knowledge, and in order to act freely in the world, you need to know what the world is and know what you’re doing. You only know what you’re doing if you have access to the truth. So freedom requires truth, and so to smash freedom you must smash truth.

Part of what fascist politics does is get people to disassociate from reality, there is no truth, there is only opinions. You get them to sign on to this fantasy version of reality, and from then on their anchor isn’t the world around them — it’s the leader and his opinion.

Part of interview on Fascism with Jason Stanley Professor of Philosophy at Yale University.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#992

Post by tonfreed »

_qulr wrote: post #984
tonfreed wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

> I blame the internet. The irony of this ahistorical claim is that it comes very close to "Make America great again". Think about the Vietnam War. The civil rights era. The McCarthy era. The list is almost endless. The Civil War, of course. The US has almost always had major polarization. If anything, the internet reveals what had been hidden by the whitewashed corporate Big Three TV network monopoly, which was itse…

I agree, the difference now is that we have direct access to the information, it doesn't have to filter through a journalist now. All these twitter/facebook/youtube bans are trying to put a genie back in a bottle, Parler is gaining steam and Bitchute recently hit its funding goals.

Also, yeah, the term yellow journalism refers to Pulitzer's rags. Completely on board with that as well.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#993

Post by mbrodersen »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Denialism. Wanting something so badly to be true that you try to change the world to make it true. Humans have a unique ability to shape their world with thoughts alone. Borders, nations, cultures, laws etc. are humans making up stuff that then becomes real (as in having real consequences).

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#994

Post by mbrodersen »

skissane wrote: post #374
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

> How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? My own impression is that this is far worse in the US than in most other first world countries. If I'm right about that, then explanations based on social media algorithms etc don't really work, because the same algorithms apply in other countries too. It really then…

I agree that it is far worse in the US than in other Western Democracies. I think it has to do with the fundamental US culture of distrust in government and extreme focus on “individualism”. Which by many people gets translated into “I don’t care about the rest as long as I get what I want”. It is an attitude that long term undermines and destroy society. The US is moving towards a modern version of feudalism. It will get much worse. You haven’t seen anything yet.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#995

Post by mbrodersen »

torsday wrote: post #605
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

There aren't two realities, I would start there.

There aren’t two physical realities but there are many social realities. Borders/societies/cultures/religions/laws/... are invented by humans and become real (as in has real impact on physical reality).

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#996

Post by Fjolsvith »

tonfreed wrote: post #904
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I blame the internet. Back in the days before it, we had to learn to live with those around us, now you can just go out and find someone as equally stupid as yourself. I call it the toaster fucker problem. Man wakes up in 1980, tells his friends "I want to fuck a toaster" Friends quite rightly berate and laugh at him, guy deals with it, maybe gets some therapy and goes on a bit better adjusted. Guy in 2021 tells his…

Look at what the press was saying about Lincoln before the war. Nothing new these days.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#997

Post by dang »

iron0013 wrote: post #824

[flagged]

I didn't alter that headline, nor did anyone on HN. NPR changed theirs. Take a look and you'll see that they've changed it again since you posted your comment.

While I have you: if you don't stop breaking the site guidelines, which you do with most of what you post, and often egregiously, we're going to have to ban you. This has been going on for years and we've cut you a ton of slack, way more than most people get. We've asked you to fix this god knows how many times.

It seems pretty clear that you don't want to use HN as intended, but I'd prefer to be wrong about that. If I am, it will be easy to correct. Please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and correct it.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#998

Post by BoDlulu »

sergefaguet wrote: post #971
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

i believe so, but for reasons different from Trump's arguments. the key point is that the media was extremely supportive of Biden and not of Trump. the margin of victory was small in key states. so if the media was presenting an even-handed position and not doommongering the whole time, it seems quite probable that Trump would have won. so the argument is that the media elite has manipulated the population into doing…

This is a strange argument to make, do you mean that people don't have free will and will vote whatever their TV tells them to? And what solution to this "problem" do you suggest?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#999

Post by BoDlulu »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #348
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

There are climate change deniers and, I'd wager, holocaust deniers here, so why not? I don't understand why people have such a hard time believing that just because you're in tech you're not immune to the cognitive biases shared by the entire human race.

Well, yes, people with higher education tend to be smarter, yes.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#1000

Post by kalyantm »

djsumdog wrote: post #954
kalyantm wrote: post #928

What I dont get is how polarized the states currently is. It's either black or white. Red or Blue. Dems or Republicans. I tend to lean a little to the left myself, but people need perspective. Biden is inheriting a mess, but what I liked was in his initial speech when he said "I dont care if you voted for me or not, I'll be your president". That sparks some hope and I hope it goes to unify the country

..and then the left goes on about prosecuting anyone who helped Trump, about how Trump supporters need to be reeducated. Biden doesn't get to say that. The democrats have been vicious, mean, nasty and deceitful. Big Tech and Big Media practically covered up the entire Hunter Biden situation claiming it wasn't true; and now it's clear he was under FBI investigation. You don't get to shit on 50% of the country, tell th…

Yeah I get where you are coming from. The system is completely broken, no doubts there. I still think Biden a better bet than Trump though
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