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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#601

Post by jchrisa »

gameswithgo wrote: post #494
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I see things almost completely opposite to you. Twenty years ago we had far less diverse access to information. You would get things from your local newspaper, or tv networks. Professionals would work and filter what we see. Today anyone can fire up a blog, twitter, youtube, and start talking about anything. People today thus have been getting exposed to all kinds of ideas, and being taken in by them: the earth is fl…

It's not that people are unable to understand, it's that understanding isn't part of the game. It's about group membership and a lot of that is about knowing the "phrases" that make you seem like a member.

Easy bad ideas make for catchy phrases. The kinds of thoughts that are spreading across the US today would have been stopped by editorial accountability in an earlier era. I'm not sure education is the way to reduce the impact of easy bad ideas, because group members take on the catch phrases without thinking them through.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#602

Post by bengalister »

This to a certain extent reminds me of the yellow vest protests that we had in France end of 2018, beginning of 2019.

Well it started for a somewhat different reason (a new "eco" tax on gas) but 1 of the protesters claim was that the president had only been elected by a quarter of French people and thus had no reason to stay in power. And we saw some protests turning violent with some protesters losing an eye, hit by rubber ball or gas canister (seen such comments on twitter about the US BLM protests and Trump/BLM protesters clashes). It was said that an helicopter was ready to fly the president out of Paris during the peak of the protests and some protesters managed to storm some ministry.

The social unrest for me is partly to blame on social media. We also see that with the conspiracy theorists on covid19, but people don't watch traditional media anymore. They get information from Facebook groups or some twitter feeds, spend their time commenting on the same topic, see that some other people share the same opinion and thus think a large portion of their fellow citizen share the same point of view. It just reinforces extremist views or make them become dominant within a group.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#603

Post by dredmorbius »

TehCorwiz wrote: post #388

An IED was just discovered, these are not protests, this is insurrection and sedition. https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/Live-updates-U-... @ 12:59p EDIT: fixed time.

NBC:

on MSNBC: At least one IED was found. It's now in the hands of law enforcement.

https://nitter.net/oneunderscore__/status/134692342971531673...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#604

Post by CuriousSkeptic »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

A long, but interesting, take on the issue. Apparently on its way as a book soon

https://waitbutwhy.com/2020/01/sick-giant.html

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#605

Post by torsday »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

There aren't two realities, I would start there.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#607

Post by DanBC »

tomp wrote: post #383
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

The mainstream media did this to themselves. They actively promoted outright lies, conspiracy theories, politically convenient fake facts (“masks don’t work”) and misinterpretations of truth. The end result is, nobody trusts anyone. We’re seeing one side of the story, but I suspect if Trump narrowly won, it would be the same.

> politically convenient fake facts (“masks don’t work”)

As I keep asking you, every time you post this, please can you point to the published studies showing that masks work. These studies should have been published before the WHO / CDC / etc made their recommendations.

If you're unable to find those studies you should conclude that WHO were telling you what they knew at the time and this was being accurately reported by the media.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#608

Post by gwright »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

I would add

3. The anonymity of online identity.

People behave very differently when they perceive they are anonymous.

Perhaps this is a version of mob psychology/dynamics where the anonymity of the collective causes people to act in ways that they normally wouldn't.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#609

Post by triceratops »

hedora wrote: post #579

Pence should invoke the 25th amendment and remove Trump from office. That would end this constitutional crisis. (Some Democrats are calling for an impeachment, which wouldn’t help.)

> (Some Democrats are calling for an impeachment, which wouldn’t help.)

I think it would help tremendously. If nothing else, it's important for the history books.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#610

Post by tubbyjr »

ashtonkem wrote: post #582
samch wrote: post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

Or impeach & convict. He’s a threat to the republic, and he has to go.

wow, you should really become a policymaker. Pour gasoline on the fire, really wish I came up with that one
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