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Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#891

Post by el-salvador »

texasbigdata wrote: post #878
skapadia wrote: post #874

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "whatsapp also _is_ basically the Internet" this is the best description I've read so far.

So bots exist or no? Honestly in that rare instance sheds you need to chat with an Intercom website, would much rather do it in WhatsAppWeb or via cell

As an end user I keep WhatsApp open on my computer, because it makes it very easy to copy and paste text, screenshots or files.

From the business side.

Big companies use bots and ticketing systems based on the WhatsApp API.

Smaller stores can handle with WhatsApp for phone or Web.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#892

Post by aidenn0 »

ValentineC wrote: post #235
dustinmoris wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. Other people will do the same, and it will snowball into everyone having Signal installed and at some point people will realise that the network effect is gone.

> You uninstall WhatsApp and tell your closest family and friends that they can only reach you on Signal. Because you are so important to them, they will install Signal as a backup/secondary app. I'll be the one friend that'll insist on SMS/email. I’ll even offer to use some other supposedly encrypted method like Keybase or Matrix. If that doesn't work as a fallback, then I guess we can agree to disagree, and someone…

You can backup your signal message DB; maybe not as nice as iCloud, but I guess you get what you pay for?

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#893

Post by hypersundays »

pdimitar wrote: post #486
hypersundays wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to second that you should avoid Viber if possible. It's clunky and incredibly slow and astonishingly frustrating

Yeah. It rode on the "free SMS" wave for way too long and people still use it because of that... nevermind that SMS-es are free in most of the world nowadays. :D Or the fact that literally every messenger is free and most have no ads (unlike Viber which does have ads). The very continued existence of Viber is a living testament of the glacial pace with which the non-tech folk pick up on what's wrong with some of the…

I actually think the existence of Viber is a testament to how much Western tech does not pay attention to parts of the world like Asia.

I genuinely hate the UX of Viber but since moving back to the Philippines, I've been involved in this long lesson on how much tech orgs (at least in the US) don't pay attention to these parts of the world. It seems to me that lack of care and attention leads to the rise and dominance of companies like Viber, Grab, Lazada, and their ilk in markets like the Philippines.

In the end, these apps that you and I both despise are what works best for the consumers that use them most precisely because they just work (but not well).

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#894

Post by zoom6628 »

Most enterprise software companies have data privacy clauses in their contracts. The sharing of customer contact data may put corporate phone holders in breach of contracts. Prudence suggests that software companies at least should prevent all staff from using WhatsApp until their customers have agreed to it.

And same would go for tiktok as it too also grabs your contacts.

This is a slippery slope.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#895

Post by zepto »

fsflover wrote: post #563
incrudible wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, b…

> It's too late to go back. It's never too late. Spread the message and show people alternatives. I do.

Agreed - it’s also a win even if you just get someone to use signal in addition to WhatsApp, as I was able to do today.

Eventually abandoning WhatsApp will slowly get easier as alternatives propagate, and using two messengers really isn’t a problem now.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#896

Post by el-salvador »

slothtrop wrote: post #378
apexalpha wrote: post #155

Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.

As someone who's never used such a service, help me understand what's so critical about it. Can't people just send SMS? Aren't people on fb anyway, which can be accessed with a container on Firefox? EDIT: got some answers re SMS. Fine, though that doesn't explain why there is so much overlap/redundancy with social media applications. At a glance, it appears I could do the very same things (groups, multimedia) messagi…

Sharing WhatsApp numbers is quick an can be done with everyone. It doesn't require your real name and doesn't share your list of friends by default.

It means I can freely share my WhatsApp number with my bank, my boss, the delivery person, the plumber, the clerk from the nearby cafeteria, clients, the driver of the tow truck, or my teachers, anyone.

But there is no way I'll share my Facebook or Intagram name/id with themn. That's more private and usually only done for friends or acquaintances.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#897

Post by IanCal »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #497
qwertox wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the EU would force messaging systems to also support interactions with XMPP or other similar open standards. There's nothing in their way to expect such a thing, except the lobbyists.

Why would you want your government to mandate how technology works? Sounds like a recipe for disaster and the perfect way to stifle innovation

Forcing interoperability means the apps need to actually compete with each other by being better - rather than just by being the biggest incumbent. Restrictions and requirements can boost innovation.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#898

Post by ipodopt »

lucideer wrote: post #645
ipodopt wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should add that successful & popular federated online messaging services are something we've had since the 1960s so I have yet to see any compelling reason to be perpetuating the walled-garden approach beyond a preference for a totalitarian approach to ecosystem control. Touche, but if they were there before why aren't they "here" in popular adoption? I think, although it is perfectly technically feasible in a va…

> why aren't they "here" in popular adoption? I think, although it is perfectly technically feasible in a vacuum it is not in real life. HN is likely not the best forum for this argument, but I'd have two answers to this: 1. Email is popularly adopted. It's difficult to add improvements because it's a federated protocol from the 60s, but it is still popular. 2. The reason we haven't had popular adoption since is beca…

Email is good example of something that lasted. I think piecing it apart in more detail picking another few cases could let me clarify and solidify my arguments but like you HN is probably not the place for a detailed analysis.

Long term, I would hope that if Signal gets large enough market-share and stabilizes they would make the signal protocol federated.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#899

Post by aaomidi »

Foivos wrote: post #859
aaomidi wrote: post #791

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are you indexing literally billions of messages on tiny mobile devices? What happens when you wipe your device and you want to have your chat history from before? How do you download all the previous chat messages? Who hosts the chat index?

I think it is very unlikely for a conversation to reach billions of messages. There are less than 32 million seconds in a year. So, Yoigo would need to send a message per seconds for decades to reach a billion. Of course there are people who are much more popular than me, so it might be possible and I am not aware of it. :)

These are channels and groups with thousands of members.

https://t.me/durovschat Has 9500 members

https://t.me/swhkdemocracy Has 6000 members

https://t.me/linux_group Has 6000 members

https://t.me/PublicTestGroup Has 18000 members

There is no limit to joining these chats. These design decisions Telegram has picked has allowed the app to be quasi social media, rather than just IM. You can't index these and maintain chat history locally. You'd need way more bandwidth and energy and computational power than the average cellphone has.

Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp

#900

Post by el-salvador »

baq wrote: post #823
xiphias2 wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whole Central and South America is like this actually. I have travelled to many countries. Often this is the only way to get a hospital appointment, and I prioritize my health over privacy from Facebook.

this single post would be grounds for nationalization/breakup/conversion to utility status for me. i wouldn't believe this if there weren't so many of you saying the same thing here. it's unthinkable for me to send any kind of confidential information via whatsapp.

WhatsApp chats are advertised as End to End Encrypted. But the app has a chat backup feature that is (or used to be) in plain text.
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