U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#621

Post by jcranmer » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #582

samch wrote: post #528

I think, for the safety of all involved, it may be time to enact section 4 of the 25th Amendment. Amendment 25 - Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the Pr…

Or impeach & convict. He’s a threat to the republic, and he has to go.

I wrote my Representative and Senators an hour ago to urge them to impeach/convict respectively.

The bar for when incitement to violence loses its constitutionally-protected status is "incitement to imminent lawless act" (from Brandenburg v Ohio). Trump's speech earlier today probably qualifies as passing that bar. That is clearly an impeachable offense.

Ilhan Omar is apparently already writing up Articles of Impeachment: https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1346934098384793606

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#622

Post by 542458 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

elinear wrote: post #587

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I have seen this article [1] being thrown around among my conservative friends, and while I do not have the statistics background to understand the detailed analysis, it seems to suggest some strange behavior around the reporting of mail-in votes. Not exactly evidence, but something that may have warranted investigation at the time. [1] https://votepatternanalysis.substack.com/p/voting-anomalies-... edit: I'm looking…

The vote spikes are simple - early voting ballots getting reported [1]. Biden encouraged his supporters to vote early. Trump did the opposite. Accordingly, the early/absentee votes are ~90% for Biden. Due to the way they get counted they come in larger lumps than day-of vote counting. As far as I can tell the rest of the post is statistical gish-gallop with some graphs and equations to make it all look more convincing.

I also want to say that the sources of reported votes isn't a mystery, and the author could easily have found out that they were early votes if they had wanted to. Either they didn't check, or didn't want to inform people of those very relevant facts.

[1]: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wi-pa-mi-vote-s...

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#623

Post by knodi » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

This has been America from the beginning. The few have carried the many. Before this was not a major issue because the selection of people on radio or TV to curated to some degree. Now with Social Media, every idiot has a voice and idiots are drowned to other idiots.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#624

Post by Swenrekcah » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

huntermeyer wrote: post #593

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I don't believe it was stolen. I think we should be able to see how our vote was recorded. The whole system is based on trust. Right now that trust is being threatened (eroded?). Since there isn't a way to individually inspect the system, we have to rely on the word of others to validate it. The government doesn't always act in the best interest of the populace and often outright lies to it. This begs the question, s…

That is impossible to square with a secret vote.

The tried and tested way to hold free and fair elections are paper ballots, simple boxes with obvious seals, and observers from all parties as well as international ones.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#625

Post by JosephHatfield » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

Capital Police opened the security line, encouraged the "protesters" inside, and were even shown having selfies taken with them. What other conclusion can you reach than that this was supported if not organized by someone with authority over the security forces sworn to protect the Capital? If true, this is Sedition.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#626

Post by FreezerburnV » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #565

ben_w wrote: post #423

Here’s a “fun” thought: if you were running a foreign intelligence operation in the USA, surely you’d try to get one of your agents into the mob that got into the Capitol building and given free reign over all those computers, computers that were not locked properly before the legitimate users fled for their safety? I’m not just talking about Russia and China here, I mean all the intelligence agencies.

The threat has already been realized. Apparently a twitter user got into Pelosi's office and posted an screenshot of one of their computers (tweet deleted about an hour ago [1]). You can see the tweet at other sources [2] [1] https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/134690542554391757... [2] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/pro-trump-report...

There’s a good thread debunking that it was actually Pelosi’s computer as well as details of the security protocols around the computers: https://twitter.com/foone/status/1346924327996772354?s=21

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#627

Post by gigatexal » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

As an American I am terribly sad today for America and Americans regardless of political affiliation. What an insane sight to behold. Trump loyalists sitting in Nancy Pelosi’s office, a woman being rushed out having been shot, representatives drawing up impeachment articles, what a clusterfuck. A sad, sad day to be an American and a sad day for democracy because a demagogue has usurped it for his own wills and whims.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#628

Post by ngngngng » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

jjcon wrote: post #462

tosh wrote: post #409

A reminder how fragile democracy is

I dunno - the us has a president doing everything he can to stay in power and has been blocked at every turn... that would not end the same way in most places

Exactly. I'm amazed how sturdy the US government is proving to be with such a large percentage of the people, including the most powerful man in the world, trying to wholeheartedly reject and overthrow it.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#629

Post by Eupolemos » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:48 PM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #606

Whole thing is a joke. Police literally let them in: https://twitter.com/i/status/1346932484152430596 ...might just as well have given them a guided tour

That the police let them in makes this whole thing quite the opposite of a joke.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#630

Post by howlgarnish » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 10:49 PM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #242

bryanlarsen wrote: post #112

"Democracy is a system in which parties lose elections" - Przeworski In other words, the core concept of democracy isn't the elections or any of the other trappings, it's the fact that it's possible for one group to lose power, transition to another group and retain the possibility to transition back in a subsequent election to the original group.

On that note, the Pa. State Senate Republicans are just refusing to swear in their new democratic colleagues. I Can't wait for this attitude to inevitably cross the pond.

This is an artifact of first past the post electoral systems, which reward polarization. You can't demonize the other parties if there's more than one to choose from and your governments are coalitions that may require you to genuinely work together next time.