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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#461

Post by baybal2 »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

> 2. Having access to a diverse information diet

I am fully for it, but I believe the ones who need to change the informational diet are not ones who you think they need.

If today's events make any surprise to HN readers. I will tell them they spent not last 4 years, but like 20 years under a rock, and have no idea whatsoever what moves the political pendulum to the right with such force. And they don't want to hear why it is so.

Here on HN, 3 years ago I said that US is inching ever closer to the second civil war, and the point of no returns gets gets more, and more visible.

Then, I was told that such talks are not welcome on HN, and it's below the esteemed patrons of our establishment to think of such lowly matters.

Voila, sealed ears, what they lead to. Not only on HN, but across the elites of entire Western world.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#464

Post by jmull »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #219
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Put simply, I don't know what to believe. As an IT security worker, I have absolutely no faith in the election since voting required the use of hackable electronic voting machines. We need to restore trust in the system. An idiot needs to be able to understand and audit it. Until that happens, there will always be people who think it's rigged, and politicians will always exploit that.

Did you take any comfort from the Georgia hand-count?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#465

Post by akiselev »

Shared404 wrote: post #271
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

> Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? There are. One sent me to this [1] resource earlier. I do not endorse this source, and have not manually verified their claims myself. If anyone else would like to check the source, that would be good, I intend to manually check their claims myself later, but don't have time now. [1] https://hereistheevidence.com/ Edit: I would ask anyone checking th…

I clicked on one in the list randomly. #38 8,000 voter application submitted by couple on behalf of homeless and the dead - https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/pair-charged-with-v...

A man who tried to run for mayor in Hawthorne is among two people charged in a voter fraud case in which thousands of fraudulent voter registration applications were allegedly submitted on behalf of homeless people, the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office announced Tuesday.

It doesn't even allege that any votes were submitted, the article was published Nov 17 so the investigation must have been going on for months.

Clicked on #237: Posted confidential voter information on website - https://www.washoecounty.us/voters/elections/20_gen_ab_ev_re...

That's the official website for Washoe County and the page is a voter turnout report so yeah obviously it's evidence of fraud (/sarcasm).

#356: Count the fraudalent [sic] ballots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eH3FpIy3TE&feature=youtu.be

It's just a youtube video of voting officials talking at a desk or something.

That website is evidence of nothing more than someone with too much time on their hands and ideology to push.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#466

Post by taurath »

baybal2 wrote: post #461
coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

> 2. Having access to a diverse information diet I am fully for it, but I believe the ones who need to change the informational diet are not ones who you think they need. If today's events make any surprise to HN readers. I will tell them they spent not last 4 years, but like 20 years under a rock, and have no idea whatsoever what moves the political pendulum to the right with such force. And they don't want to hear…

But you can’t listen to them now. Any underlying reasonable argument, policy or beliefs are now turned into monsters after they’ve turned all their opposition into monsters. They’ve become everything they claim to be protecting against. They must be fought before they can be heard.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#467

Post by JohnBooty »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

     It's the practical erosion of Free Speech
It's more like the result of free speech.

Or at least it is, in a woefully undereducated country with large segments of the population that reject science and value ignorance.

Careful, vetted, fact-based reporting is incredibly laborious.

It takes orders of magnitude more time, money, and effort than it takes your uncle Steve to fire off a group text message with a bunch of conspiracy theories or share his anti-vax opinions in yet another wonderfully insightful all-caps Facebook screed. And yet, they are treated with the same level of respect in a country like this.

Further restriction of free speech at the government level is not the answer. That would be even worse than what we have now.

The problem is, there is no answer. This is simply where our values and our ignorance has taken us.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#468

Post by slumdev »

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Fraud occurred. That much is tautological. A single instance of a dead person voting proves the statement true. To say, "fraud didn't occur," is an outright lie.

The debate is over (1) how much fraud occurred and (2) whether it affected the results.

Someone else posted the "Here is the Evidence" link. Too many videos of (R) election judges being denied access to counts done in secret, organizers paying for votes, postal workers diverting ballots from their intended destinations, chain of custody violations, Dominion machines sending ballots to be "adjudicated" in foreign countries, etc.

Thus far, the answer to the question of whether this mountain of fraud affected the results seems to depend entirely on the political views of the person examining said mountain.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#469

Post by esoterica »

coryfklein wrote: post #353

It's the practical erosion of Free Speech. Liberal (small "l" liberal) democracy and liberal science thrives on members: 1. Being willing to admit they may be wrong 2. Having access to a diverse information diet But the past two decades have shown erosion of not only legal Free Speech, but practical free speech: * Whereas previously they were just ignored (or even rebutted), today employees, students, and professors…

What kind of backwards logic is this? The fact that insane falsehood-spewing nutters can find a wide and exclusive audience (who have the freedom to choose not to listen to the non-nutters) is proof of the lack of practical restrictions on free speech, not proof of the erosion of free speech.
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