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U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

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Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#361

Post by hertzrat »

hertzrat wrote: post #260

Trump is a bad and scary man, but one of the only good things he's done is post this tweet: "I am asking for everyone at the U.S. Capitol to remain peaceful. No violence! Remember, WE are the Party of Law & Order – respect the Law and our great men and women in Blue. Thank you!"

Everyone needs to work extra hard to recognize when somebody they don't like does something good. I'm sure his subsequent and prior tweets were awful, but its legitimately helpful for him to discourage violence during such a tinderbox event. We also have:

Ivanka: “American Patriots — any security breach or disrespect to our law enforcement is unacceptable,” Ivanka Trump tweeted. “The violence must stop immediately. Please be peaceful.”

Cuccinelli called on people breaching the Capitol grounds to disperse.

“There is a proper venue to resolve grievances,” he wrote. “This is not it.”

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#362

Post by Klonoar »

dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

There are shill accounts that pop up whenever the topic comes up - if you look at the creation date / comment history of the accounts, often they're within the past few days and only discussing that.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#363

Post by altdatathrow »

patagonia wrote: post #258

Politics maybe off topic, but this is partially our fault. It’s always frustrated me that politics are largely unaddressed on HN. Not talking about it doesn’t make it not so.

> but this is partially our fault

Yes, I've called dang out on his inaction numerous times. HN is utterly filled with alt-right scum.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#364

Post by eli »

bluedino wrote: post #352
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

I believe that allowing mail-in ballots was a mistake and resulted in inaccuracies.

Can you define "inaccuracy"? You mean like someone stole another person's ballot and fraudulently cast it?

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#365

Post by odiroot »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

Not an American, living in EU.

It somehow reminds me of Weimar Germany, with two very fringe (sometimes militant) opposing groups radicalising the rest of the society -- or the rest just ignoring the whole mess and going about their lives.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#366

Post by mushbino »

titzer wrote: post #253
umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

I would suggest watching Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation (British spelling). It's mostly about Putin/Gaddafi-style mass confusion as a means to power. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUiqaFIONPQ

This was made before Trump was elected and it's amazing how accurate it is in hindsight.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#367

Post by TehCorwiz »

bcheung wrote: post #256
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

Is there any source that has a bunch of the claims and refutations to it? Just saying fraud doesn't exist doesn't help calm the outrage of those who believe it was stolen. Also based on how partisan the impeachment was it is likely people don't trust the government to have any sense of accuracy and merely attribute it to partisan lines. The strategy of acknowledging what someone says and then responding to it often c…

Two things:

1) You can't reason yourself out of a position that you didn't reason yourself into. They don't care that the data is bad, they care that it supports their worldview.

2) The folowing remains true now as it did more than 70 years ago: “Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”

― Jean-Paul Sartre

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#368

Post by baybal2 »

umvi wrote: post #72

How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

> How did we arrive to this point where a huge chunk of the population is in one reality and another huge chunk of the population is in another reality? Segregation of information sources? Politicization of media outlets? Self-reinforcing social bubbles? A combination of all of them and more?

No, that has nothing to do with it.

Take a look on wide base social polls across Western countries.

The seemingly "extreme" right turn in Europe at around the refugee crisis wasn't one unexpected if you count that.

It's just that huge social mass was very latent, and quiet as nobody wanted to be stigmatized as a nazi. Now, it isn't.

You cannot "deaf it out," and expect the problem to disappear.

Terrible social rifts can last centuries in silence. Example: Greek independence war was more than a century ago, and seemingly forgotten before it gave Ottomans the last blow, and then 50 years later, Turkey. And it seems it never really ended given what is going on in the Mediterranean now.

In the "peaceful" Western Europe, Schleswig war has ended 150 years ago, nations of Europe embraced in brotherly love, and the legacy of the conflict was ceremonially buried 10 times over, but people of Schleswig still tell of icy silence.

Re: U.S. Capitol Locked Down Amid Escalating Protests

#370

Post by ascagnel_ »

Shared404 wrote: post #271
dhruvkar wrote: post #47

Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? I haven't seen any evidence, most of the lawsuits haven't borne fruit either. However, I also recognize that there may be blindspots/biases. I'd really like to hear from anyone who believes this, to present a cogent argument. I promise not to attack. I want to hear the argument from the other side. I also beseech the rest of HN to please refrain from a…

> Are there people here on HN that believe the election was stolen? There are. One sent me to this [1] resource earlier. I do not endorse this source, and have not manually verified their claims myself. If anyone else would like to check the source, that would be good, I intend to manually check their claims myself later, but don't have time now. [1] https://hereistheevidence.com/ Edit: I would ask anyone checking th…

I think it's also worth considering that none of this evidence has been through any sort of judicial review -- at no point in the Trump campaign's barrage of lawsuits did they litigate any election fraud, only procedural questions around the inclusion or exclusions of ballots.
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