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Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

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Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#91

Post by jiggawatts »

For people that enjoy the intersection of hard science fiction and elaborate prose, I think it may be hard to best Greg Bear's City at the End of Time.

I read it while on holiday and listening to particularly appropriate music, which may have enhanced the experience and influenced my positive opinion. I admit that it's tough going in parts and there are a lot of obscure references, but the imagery is unparalleled.

I recommend Howl by Subheim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB49oSvLkqs

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#92

Post by felipeerias »

laurex wrote: post #2

The Book of the New Sun is amazing simply for the language. I actually thought he was simply making up words until I got out a dictionary and discovered that his vocabulary simply far surpassed mine, and mine isn't terrible.

The vocabulary was the most mind blowing feature of the book for me.

He is talking about people and creatures and things that are far removed from our everyday experience in one direction (the remote future), and he is doing so through archaic words that are just as far removed in the opposite direction (the remote past).

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#93

Post by watwut »

soufron wrote: post #90

Also I must add that the assertion in itself is plainly wrong. Look at "Gene Wolfe" entries in the New York Review of Books and you will find none. Gene Wolfe might be considered as "High Art" by his fans, but that only means they don't read the New York Review of Books - and don't know much about literature for most of them.

You have to be in New York Review to be considered high art? When did they became arbiter of it all?

> Gene Wolfe might be considered as "High Art" by his fans, but that only means they don't read the New York Review of Books - and don't know much about literature for most of them

This is super odd implication.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#94

Post by watwut »

m463 wrote: post #63
Finnucane wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that changed for Gene was that he no longer had a day job. When he was working, he'd get up at 5 am to writer for two hours before leaving for work. The whole of the Book of the New Sun was written that way. Which meant there was a certain commercial pressure to sell books, and I think his consistency flagged. I worked at Tor in the mid-to-late 1990s. I don't think that Hartwell just accepted anything he se…

that's interesting. I wonder if the stimulus of a day at work with people and interactions and pressure and more could make something more meaningful come out. Sort of like a little external entropy added to the random number generator.

Probably. But the lifestyle where you wake up at 5 so that you write so that you then work full time job is not sustainable.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#95

Post by caskstrength »

NOGDP wrote: post #38
saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

Haven't read Gene Wolfe (yet), but I can strongly recommend 'Hyperion Cantos' by Dan Simmons.

Counter opinion: Hyperion books are recommended every time some of my favorite authors are mentioned (like Gene Wolfe and Peter Watts), but I found them very mediocre. Not as bad as Vernor Vinge books that are also always mentioned in similar contexts, but still quite meh.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#96

Post by watwut »

kinghtown wrote: post #71
m463 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that's interesting. I wonder if the stimulus of a day at work with people and interactions and pressure and more could make something more meaningful come out. Sort of like a little external entropy added to the random number generator.

I think there is some truth to this but I wouldn’t argue to keep a day job as a writer. The vast majority of recording artists are never able to match the music they recorded in their 20’s. I’ve commented on that before here so I won’t get into it further than to say that the world isn’t interested in middle aged musicians which in turn affects the work. I think someone like Thomas Pynchon shows that an author can ve…

I dont know about music (my favorite stuff is in older aga range frequently, but I don't know how much anecdotal it is).

But, writers commonly get better with age. You see that if you read their later books and then go back to first ones.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#97

Post by caskstrength »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #47

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

Wasn't The Book of the New Sun written in early 80s, not 70s? Anyway, Latro series is also considered very good by a lot of people (didn't like it that much personally, guess it requires reader to be into Greek history/mythology) and The Book of the Long Sun is great (I did like it a lot).

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#98

Post by caskstrength »

markc wrote: post #48

I've read lots of SciFi over the years, some of it challenging. I can read hard books. Back in the 80's I started seeing so many raves for TBotNS that I went out and bought them all at once. About 80 pages into the first one, I was turned off, bored really. They sat on my shelf for a decade at least, before I just gave them away. My question is this: how long did it take you to "get into" this series. Should I have p…

TBotNS doesn't become faster paced or more action packed later. If anything, it becomes more challenging since book requires reader to remember the details and actively seek solutions to puzzles the texts presents. However, you and your tastes in literature might have changed since 80s so you could give those first 100 or so pages a try to see if your perception of them changed.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#99

Post by caskstrength »

legerdemain wrote: post #81
pavlov wrote: post #26

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compact sci-fi short story trilogy of "Fifth Head of Cerberus" rather than the magnum opus of "The Book of the New Sun". If Cerberus works for you, there is a ton more to chew in New Sun, and you should absolutely read it whether or not you like more mainstream fant…

Eeeeh... the Dying Earth novels can only be tolerated by a narrow set of readers. They're probably recommended because that narrow set used to make up a bigger fraction of the sci-fi readership. Dying Earth is incredibly puerile and laddish. Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga obviously have very little plot. They're just these repetitive picaresques where it's one hallucinatory thing happening after another, and…

I can agree with your criticism of plot of Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga, but Vance's worlbuilding is beautiful. It is a shame that most later fantasy and d&d worlds turned into banal Tolkien-knockoffs.
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