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Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

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Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#21

Post by sdepablos »

saberience wrote: post #16
strifey wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would concur with this. Wolfe and Le Guin, to me, both write sci-fi/fantasy as literature while also closely using themes that most would consider "genre fiction".

Agreed with Le Guin, I love the Earthsea books, which are more than simple fantasy and have a beautiful spiritual and philosophical quality.

Agree with both, but in the case of Le Guin I clearly prefer the Hainish Cycle, with classics as The Left Hand of Darkness, The Disposesed or The Word for World is Forest

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#22

Post by branweb »

saberience wrote: post #12
branweb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the series but I think this is an astute observation...though I have trouble articulating why I agree with this. I wonder if the world constricts or if its possibiilties just narrow (as they necessarily must) as the story plays out?

I don't agree with it, but I can perhaps see that as you go through the story, more about the setting and "universe" of the novel is explained and revealed and so it means that your imagination cannot invent as many possibilities for "why things are as they are." When you start reading the book it could be anywhere and anywhen and you have no idea about the wider universe and setting and inevitably possibilities star…

right exactly, that's what I was trying to say. The constriction happens mainly in the imagination rather than in the writing. That's the theory at least.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#23

Post by pugio »

bouvin wrote: post #18

Gene Wolfe is one of my favourite authors, and his works more than most reward careful (re-)readings. To that end, I can highly recommend Alzabo Soup [1], a podcast delving into first Book of the New Sun (and currently Book of the Long Sun) in very deep detail (it took them a couple of years, with weekly 2 hour episodes to make it through BoNW). I reread along with the podcasts, and it was well worth it. [1] https://…

Thank you for this. I've recently been enjoying the Kingslingers podcast (in-depth read-through of Stephen King's Dark Tower series), and have been actively looking for other read-along analyses of good books. At least for Kingslingers, it has significantly increased my enjoyment of the series.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#24

Post by sdepablos »

laurex wrote: post #2

The Book of the New Sun is amazing simply for the language. I actually thought he was simply making up words until I got out a dictionary and discovered that his vocabulary simply far surpassed mine, and mine isn't terrible.

Same happens with Cervantes. A funny thing is that the more languages I learn, the more vocabulary I recognize in a given language. In most cases obscure words from one language are pretty common in another.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#25

Post by jinpa_zangpo »

aardvark179 wrote: post #20
laurex wrote: post #2

The Book of the New Sun is amazing simply for the language. I actually thought he was simply making up words until I got out a dictionary and discovered that his vocabulary simply far surpassed mine, and mine isn't terrible.

He has always been incredibly clever in his use of language. The names of people in BotNS had me checking in a dictionary of saints (and books on mythological monsters for the non people) to try and gleam more meaning from them, and I remember a moment of wonder when I realised the aliens’ speech was weird because they always have an even number of syllables in each sentence. His books are incredible and really pay o…

Gene Wolfe explained in a commentary to his series that the aliens (called hierodules) are speaking in blank verse.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#26

Post by pavlov »

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compact sci-fi short story trilogy of "Fifth Head of Cerberus" rather than the magnum opus of "The Book of the New Sun".

If Cerberus works for you, there is a ton more to chew in New Sun, and you should absolutely read it whether or not you like more mainstream fantasy works.

And if you like New Sun but haven't read Jack Vance's original take on a similar world, "Dying Earth", it's absolutely worth it. Nowhere near as deep as Wolfe, but way more funny — a truly unique voice from the golden era of sci-fi.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#27

Post by smogcutter »

ak217 wrote: post #9

I find it hard to appreciate art that revels in torture, graphic violence and emotional abuse as an end unto itself. If you want an example of science fiction as high art, personally I would suggest Vernor Vinge (specifically A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky ) and Ursula Le Guin.

I can see how you get there, but strongly disagree with that assessment of BotNS.

It’s far from an endorsement of torture and abuse. Master Gurloes is a deeply broken man. Severian’s childhood trauma colors the entire story, especially his relationships with women. Part of Severian’s maturation throughout the books is his slow abandonment of his life and identity as a torturer.

To get anything out of BotNS you need to separate yourself from Severian’s point of view, and Wolfe makes this deliberately difficult. There’s what Severian believes, there’s what he wants us to believe, and there’s what “really” happened. Between those three poles there’s usually a lot of empty space.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#28

Post by root_axis »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #15

I think there are many definitions of High Art here. This Is How You Lose The Time War is something I'd recommend also, to compare and contrast what is considered emotionally vivid, beautiful prose, and challenging literature in science fiction now compared to Gene Wolfe. It's super fascinating to see how some things have changed in its definition of the pinnacle of the art and how others have stayed the same.

Thanks for the recommendation, your setup has piqued my interest in terms of how I might appreciate the work as compared to Wolfe.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#29

Post by TinkersW »

ak217 wrote: post #9

I find it hard to appreciate art that revels in torture, graphic violence and emotional abuse as an end unto itself. If you want an example of science fiction as high art, personally I would suggest Vernor Vinge (specifically A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky ) and Ursula Le Guin.

BoTN doesn't do any of those things, did you just read a summary or the title and make that assumption?
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