Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#81

Post by legerdemain » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:22 AM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #26

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compact sci-fi short story trilogy of "Fifth Head of Cerberus" rather than the magnum opus of "The Book of the New Sun". If Cerberus works for you, there is a ton more to chew in New Sun, and you should absolutely read it whether or not you like more mainstream fant…

Eeeeh... the Dying Earth novels can only be tolerated by a narrow set of readers. They're probably recommended because that narrow set used to make up a bigger fraction of the sci-fi readership. Dying Earth is incredibly puerile and laddish. Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga obviously have very little plot. They're just these repetitive picaresques where it's one hallucinatory thing happening after another, and none of it matters for more than a scene. It's kind of like Cartoon Network's Adventure Time, but without any lovable characters whatsoever.

And then, of course, there is "The Murthe," in which the hero must defeat a sorceress who is turning wizards into women.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#82

Post by baggy_trough » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:31 AM UTC

legerdemain wrote: post #81

pavlov wrote: post #26

I love Wolfe. Which book to read first depends on your attitude towards the fantasy genre. If you're skeptical of it, I would recommend starting with the compact sci-fi short story trilogy of "Fifth Head of Cerberus" rather than the magnum opus of "The Book of the New Sun". If Cerberus works for you, there is a ton more to chew in New Sun, and you should absolutely read it whether or not you like more mainstream fant…

Eeeeh... the Dying Earth novels can only be tolerated by a narrow set of readers. They're probably recommended because that narrow set used to make up a bigger fraction of the sci-fi readership. Dying Earth is incredibly puerile and laddish. Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga obviously have very little plot. They're just these repetitive picaresques where it's one hallucinatory thing happening after another, and…

Blinkered perspective. Cugel is one of the greatest.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#83

Post by vagrantJin » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:44 AM UTC

saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

Thanks for the recommendation. The foundation trilogy stands among the best for me but if you say Wolfe isnt beneath Asimov, that is high praise.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#84

Post by nathias » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:45 AM UTC

Wolfe is great, some of his works are the best of the genre, but elevating sci-fi to high art was Lem's project not his.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#85

Post by nathias » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #47

I have read every single thing Wolfe wrote (even the limited-edition chapbooks), and I feel I should warn potential readers: he only had about a decade-long run as a writer of high art in the 1970s. I strongly recommend the early Wolfe, but the later Wolfe is a lesser author. In that decade, Wolfe produced three large works ( The Fifth Head of Cerberus , Peace and The Book of the New Sun ) and a number of short stori…

the soldier trilogy is also great ...

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#86

Post by hnews_account_1 » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

NOGDP wrote: post #38

saberience wrote: post #7

For all those who are saying now "Who's Gene Wolfe??" I strongly, strongly, urge you to read his tetralogy "The Book of The New Sun," it's one of the finest sci-fi/fantasy series I've ever read and I have a pretty damn critical taste when it comes to literature. (not trying to sound snobby by the way, I just don't praise books like these lightly or without good reason) So I love Lord of the Rings, the Silmarillion, M…

Haven't read Gene Wolfe (yet), but I can strongly recommend 'Hyperion Cantos' by Dan Simmons.

Somehow this book elicits both claims of "greatest hall of famer ever written" from people like me, or "meh it was good but I couldn't get through all 4 books" from others.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#87

Post by soufron » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

Well that's certainly dismissive for all the other authors who wrote science fiction before him. It's also cultish, and probably wrong given that I find his books sluggish and boring, with the psychological acumen of an american high school teenager.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#88

Post by soufron » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:08 AM UTC

markc wrote: post #48

I've read lots of SciFi over the years, some of it challenging. I can read hard books. Back in the 80's I started seeing so many raves for TBotNS that I went out and bought them all at once. About 80 pages into the first one, I was turned off, bored really. They sat on my shelf for a decade at least, before I just gave them away. My question is this: how long did it take you to "get into" this series. Should I have p…

Welcome to the club.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#89

Post by TinkersW » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:15 AM UTC

legerdemain wrote: post #37

It's hard to avoid getting repeated recommendations to read Gene Wolfe if you hang out with the more old-fashioned fans of science fiction. One year I read both the New Sun novels and a "best of" collection of several dozen of Wolfe's short stories. Wolfe had a long career and a big reputation, and he certainly was distinctive among his peers. But I found that many of his stories lean heavily into two tricks. They ar…

I think you are correct in so far as if you read many of his stories it does seem that he uses the same narrative style over and over-- I thought his short stories were okay but I wouldn't recommend them to people, mostly for similar reasons.

I don't think it distracts from the quality of BoTN, which stands on its own, and does a much better job of using this style.

That Catholic sentence is awful, thankfully there aren't in Catholics in BoTN.

Re: Gene Wolfe Turned Science Fiction into High Art (2019)

#90

Post by soufron » Wed, Jan 06, 2021, 8:18 AM UTC

Also I must add that the assertion in itself is plainly wrong. Look at "Gene Wolfe" entries in the New York Review of Books and you will find none. Gene Wolfe might be considered as "High Art" by his fans, but that only means they don't read the New York Review of Books - and don't know much about literature for most of them.