Earlier quoted context omitted.
1440p Matt screen, 24G Ram, i7. Battery life all day. Still cheaper than a weaker specced Mac.
> 1440p > i7 Surely you're joking?
Care to elaborate? Is it because 1440p + i7 is power hungry or something?
Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
191–200 of 414 posts
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#192Earlier quoted context omitted.
PS3, and supposedly that was because some jurisdictions treated game consoles and computers differently for import tariffs (computers being cheaper to import), but those jurisdictions changed to not having a distinction. Agreed with the underlying point you're making though. They allow this because it aligns with their current strategic objectives, and changes to those objectives can be arbitrary and capricious, at l…
I remember it was because geohot "jailbreaked" the PS3 using the Linux capabilities to some extent. But I could be wrong.
There were two versions of the PS3: The original model and a slimmed down version released after a few years.
the timeline was something like this:
- Sony released the original PS3 with Linux running under a hypervisor that locked certain things (e.g. 3D rendering and their DRM)
- Sony released the PS3 slim without Linux. They claimed they didn't have the resources to make Linux run on it. (We later figured out all that was required were a few incredibly simple kernel patches)
- geohot found a somewhat unstable hardware glitch that, with some luck and a few tries, could escalate to hypervisor mode and enable e.g. 3D rendering from Linux. Their DRM was still untouched at this point and no one really cared.
- Sony released an update for the old PS3 models to disable Linux as well citing "security concerns"
After that more people started looking into the PS3 and marcan, me and others at fail0verflow eventually figured out their security wasn't all that great. It was actually so bad that we could calculate their private keys. Then they sued us for that but that's another story.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#193Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apart from the fact they've actively stated (repeatedly, during their main presentations) that running arbitrary code on a mac will not be changing. For a company that seems sometimes to go out of its way to not give any information on anything it doesn't make sense to clearly and concisely make that statement.
> running arbitrary code on a mac will not be changing. i wonder how much of this is thanks to peoples "gnashing of teeth" about mac getting an iphone lockdown in the end its speculation, but id wager a guess apple wouldnt have a big problem locking down macos if people didnt make a big deal out of it
It's almost certainly not due to "gnashing of teeth." They've always marketed the MacBook line as a general computing device for power users. The idea that they would make it impossible for developers to use their primary computing product is ridiculous. They know how many of these things they sell to students, developers, etc.
Just a note - it's often very easy to measure the validity of your ideas by considering the economics of the ideas. Apple effectively neutering development on their premier general purpose computer would obviously reduce the amount they sold. The same isn't true for the iPhone, which effectively no one develops on.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
judging by other open source reverse engineerd GPU drivers its a massive undertaking. i also looked at a shot of the chip and see lots of neural networking functionality, i wonder what sort of special drivers stuff like that needs. i just feel like the hardware is so specialized without apples help it would take a lot for it to be a killer linux laptop.
Reverse engineering of the Neural Engine is already under way: https://github.com/geohot/tinygrad/tree/master/ane
wow, and by George Hotz of PS3/comma.ai fame too.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#195Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I also see a tough situation developing a few years down the road when Apple inevitably closes the platform even more and harms features of this project. Hopefully I am wrong.
> inevitably It's been inevitable for 10+ years now. Maybe this word doesn't mean what you think it means.
Regardless of semantics, I think my comment was too pessimistic and you are correct.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#196Earlier quoted context omitted.
is it? my 2016 macbook was the worst apple product i've ever owned...
I got Linux running on a MacBook 14,3. It was ... less than ideal. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/linux-on-a-macbook-pro-14-3/ ..but I also don't want to see Linux get left in the dust. I'm more likely Intel or AMD crush the M1 in their next few generations.
I have run Linux on a Macbook pro (several times; several different models; up until around 2013). Was always a good experience . . . EXCEPT: trying to get power management dialed-in. (a package from Apple would be very helpful here).
Of course, now with TouchBar, I have no idea if that is even supported on Linux at all. I assume it's not, and if it is, it's a complete pain in the ass. (but honestly - could possibly be GREAT, if it weren't for the loss of the 'esc' key).
I seem to recall getting Debian running on my dual PPC Mac Pro was also difficult; with power management - but on the other hand, I was using it as a server and ran it full-blast 24x7 anyway. Damn that thing was loud.
I only see the M1 making power management that much more complicated, (due to custom chipset and lack of support from tools that are standard on x86-based linux distros). The main thing you'd stand to gain from the M1 platform is power and heat management. So I am cautiously optimistic that anyone wanting to port linux there will possibly pay close attention to putting together a package of tools that will work.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a feature because it's literally a whole set of command line options and settings in their boot policies, which is documented in man pages, with all the warnings about normal users not having to use any of this that you'd expect. It's a whole pile of code that Apple doesn't need, and could've just removed or never written in the first place, that was written explicitly and only so people could run unsigned kerne…
This is really promising, but I do think scepticism is warranted - Apple loves their walled gardens.
There's a not-insignificant number of people that want to do more with their Mac than run software from a single marketplace.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#198Earlier quoted context omitted.
is it? my 2016 macbook was the worst apple product i've ever owned...
Well All 2016 - 2019 MacBook are pretty much junk. As shown by their resale value. So it was probably one of the worst Apple product ever. But the Pre-2015 MacBook Pro and M1? They are great. ( Although M1 still have shitty keyboard )
I'm still using my 2013 MBP on a daily basis. Fucking beast. Though I need to do a battery swap.
Far superior to my 2019 MBP my employer got me.
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#199Just a reminder, the Patreon is not fully funded. If people really want to see this happen, dropping a couple dollars a month to help support the project is the best way. https://www.patreon.com/marcan
With https://github.com/sponsors/marcan also present as an option.
Which IIUC should give him a larger fraction of your donation (all but payment processor fees for now, minus 10% after the beta ends), or you could pledge at https://liberapay.com/on/github/marcan/ and let him choose to take whatever fraction he wants (also excluding processor fees, forever ±).
Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project
#200It seems so amazing to me that Microsoft saw the ARM opportunity with Windows RT, released 8 years back but somehow managed to not succeed with a stellar ARM laptop story. Maybe Qualcomm is more to blame here for never progressing as well as Apple has done on chips but maybe the software experience was just not there. We would probably already have good ARM laptops running linux distros if Windows on ARM had taken of…
Maybe it is not Qualcomm that is to blame, but it is Apple to be praised. But I guess I am talking glass half full / half empty here, so nevermind :D
I think they are to blame. Qualcomm is one of the biggest (if not THE biggest) manufacturer of ARM chips, yet they still simply use reference designs. Besides, for the next flagship (Snapdragon 888) they switched to Samsung 5nm (inferior to TSMC 5nm) and they're not even using the ARM-recommended 8MB L3 cache, but staying with 4MB.
It seems benchmarks for tha SoC aren't bad, but it really shows that they aren't really trying to catch up to Apple.
(My source is https://www.anandtech.com/show/16271/qualcomm-snapdragon-888...)