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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#41

Post by ciwolsey »

chpmrc wrote: post #38
libria wrote: post #7

Very interesting overall. > Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon macs without a jailbreak! This isn’t a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. Indefinitely? How do we know it's a feature vs a temporarily convenient oversight? > Our goal is not just to make Linux run on these machines, but to polish it to the point where it can be used as a daily OS. Do…

Apple adds limitations to protect the system: "too strict!" Apple gives the chance to disable these limitations to power users: "they should be disabled by default!" Apple disables limitations: "temporary convenient oversight?" ...

I see nothing wrong with any of these speculations. If you or Apple don't like speculation the answer is for them to communicate their intention.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#42

Post by _ph_ »

brundolf wrote: post #31
raverbashing wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say there might be ongoing work to support Windows/BootCamp but in true Apple tradition (or maybe due to MS delays) it is being kept secret

That would make a lot of sense. Windows is in a tight spot right now because OEMs have lagged on ARM. Apple could offer MS a way out of that, while at the same time giving people one more reason to spend money on a Mac.

Right, if MS is serious about Windows on ARM, they should support the Mac as a show case and also to allow all future Mac buyers the chance to run Windows. Of course, Apple can't announce much until Microsoft makes an announcement about Windows on AS Macs.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#43

Post by deadmutex »

Klonoar wrote: post #26
deadmutex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not support a hardware vendor that actually cares about linux?

People value industrial design, for one.

Is the Mac laptop ID significantly different than other laptops, e.g. PixelBook Go? I have a MBA, and was super surprised at how think it was compared to my Pixelbook. I would say that Apple laptop ID nothing special, and is lacking things like a touchscreen, etc.

I would say that M1 has good performance ON MAC SOFTWARE, which has been tuned for it (and vice versa). It is unknown if linux will perform as well on it.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#44

Post by Hamuko »

brundolf wrote: post #31
raverbashing wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say there might be ongoing work to support Windows/BootCamp but in true Apple tradition (or maybe due to MS delays) it is being kept secret

That would make a lot of sense. Windows is in a tight spot right now because OEMs have lagged on ARM. Apple could offer MS a way out of that, while at the same time giving people one more reason to spend money on a Mac.

Linus Tech Tips actually just released a video a couple of hours ago where they compared the Surface Pro X SQ2 with the M1 MacBook Air. It was not pretty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#45

Post by DCKing »

chpmrc wrote: post #38
libria wrote: post #7

Very interesting overall. > Apple allows booting unsigned/custom kernels on Apple Silicon macs without a jailbreak! This isn’t a hack or an omission, but an actual feature that Apple built into these devices. Indefinitely? How do we know it's a feature vs a temporarily convenient oversight? > Our goal is not just to make Linux run on these machines, but to polish it to the point where it can be used as a daily OS. Do…

Apple adds limitations to protect the system: "too strict!" Apple gives the chance to disable these limitations to power users: "they should be disabled by default!" Apple disables limitations: "temporary convenient oversight?" ...

It's a bad faith argument. The presupposition is that Apple is inherently motivated to actively lock things down, because that's what they do with the iPhone. This glosses over that Apple has no reason to actually do so, only has reasons not to do it on the Mac, and has gone on record saying they won't treat the Mac as the iPhone. It's based on the notion that Apple would be against free booting a priori for some reason.

Mind you, not all bad faith arguments are unwarranted. I kind of get where it comes from. But it's important to recognize that's that what it is, and there's no reason to actually believe it.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#46

Post by WanderPanda »

actuator wrote: post #40

It seems so amazing to me that Microsoft saw the ARM opportunity with Windows RT, released 8 years back but somehow managed to not succeed with a stellar ARM laptop story. Maybe Qualcomm is more to blame here for never progressing as well as Apple has done on chips but maybe the software experience was just not there. We would probably already have good ARM laptops running linux distros if Windows on ARM had taken of…

Maybe it is not Qualcomm that is to blame, but it is Apple to be praised. But I guess I am talking glass half full / half empty here, so nevermind :D

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#47

Post by ciwolsey »

ogre_codes wrote: post #29
mhh__ wrote: post #24

What are the odds Apple shit on this?

Why? If they'd intended to shut this down, they would have a locked down boot loader like on iOS. Instead they deliberately built a boot loader which supported things like this.

Get people on board first. Lock it down once it's too late and everyone is invested.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#48

Post by _ph_ »

deadmutex wrote: post #16
Badfood wrote: post #5

I'll buy our whole company these macs in a heartbeat if this becomes good enough

Why not support a hardware vendor that actually cares about linux?

Apple devices always have been usually quite attractive, but currently, there is no better ARM hardware for the end user available. A lot of people would like to use some other cpu than x86 and on top of that the M1 is currently perhaps the most attractive notebook cpu.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#49

Post by deadmutex »

unethical_ban wrote: post #39
deadmutex wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not support a hardware vendor that actually cares about linux?

Why not buy hardware that doesn't suck? I still have a Thinkpad for my primary laptop, but using a mac with retina, 5-10hr batt life, and a nice touchpad for work is such a joy compared to a 1080p matte screen with 3hr battery life.

I mean, there is a wide range of products here. If we're comparing anecdotes, I have a personal MBA with a TN panel with less than 1080p screen, and crappy built-in webcam. But it is not fair to compare it to another laptop I use which was designed and manufactured later.

Keep in mind that battery life is not just about hw, and requires careful tuning of the OS. However, the OP is talking about running linux on it, so the batt life will definitely NOT be as good as running MacOS.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#50

Post by machello13 »

ciwolsey wrote: post #41
chpmrc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple adds limitations to protect the system: "too strict!" Apple gives the chance to disable these limitations to power users: "they should be disabled by default!" Apple disables limitations: "temporary convenient oversight?" ...

I see nothing wrong with any of these speculations. If you or Apple don't like speculation the answer is for them to communicate their intention.

They've plenty communicated their intention to not turn the Mac into the iPhone/iPad. And besides which, it would be a disastrous product strategy to do that, from a company that's absolutely top-of-the-ball when it comes to product strategy.
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