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Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

arstechnica.com

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Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#171

Post by unreal37 »

Eridrus wrote: post #32
anotherman554 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why the public should never support self driving cars: the corporation will kill people without consequences.

Drivers often do not face any consequences for killing people as it is. Unless the driver was intoxicated, it is generally written off as an accident. If only the people who get outraged about self-driving cars were as outraged by this fact and applied pressure to improve street design and speed limit enforcement.

A lot of car fatalities are accidents that don't involve alcohol - around 70%.

One time I lost control of my car while driving on the highway and hitting a patch of black ice. Luckily, nobody died. But that happens all the time.

Presumably, a self-driving car will drive slower in adverse weather than a human might, as well as being able to control the car if it hits an ice patch better than an untrained human can.

Also, the car can notify other cars on the same road of the ice patch, instantaneously.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#172

Post by NegativeLatency »

ljm wrote: post #157
nathanyz wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of the great imbalances in the justice system where technically corporations are people, but criminally don't face anywhere near the same levels of punishment.

They get all of the benefits of personhood but literally none of the drawbacks.

And other benefits too: Disney trying to shirk its royalty paying responsibilities https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25143926

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#173

Post by [deleted] »

spoonjim wrote: post #130
swsieber wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the equivalent of this in the sports world would be fining a team some thousands of dollars for drug abuse instead of banning the offending players.

which they should, if the drug abuse was encouraged by team leaders and rewarded with promotions/contracts.

[deleted]

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#174

Post by Escapado »

SulfurHexaFluri wrote: post #170
nathanyz wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is one of the great imbalances in the justice system where technically corporations are people, but criminally don't face anywhere near the same levels of punishment.

IMO everyone related to a corporate crime should be responsible. If a company dumps toxic waste in to a river, the person who pressed the dump button, the person who told them to and any management that signed off on the idea should all be personally as responsible as if I just took a bucket and walked down to the local river. Perhaps some exceptions for people who could not be expected to understand the law, for exa…

And with (financial) protection for those who refuse to partake and report the crime. I guess the person pressing the dump button would usually make just above minimum wage and would be considered unimportant enough to fire if he stood up for what's right so there is no incentive except for a moral one which I would argue is not enough for most people.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#175

Post by learnstats2 »

originalvichy wrote: post #167
ipqk wrote: post #148

Compare this slap on the wrist to Aaron Swartz: Federal prosecutors later charged him with two counts of wire fraud and eleven violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act,[15] carrying a cumulative maximum penalty of $1 million in fines, 35 years in prison, asset forfeiture, restitution, and supervised release. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

”If the punishment for a crime is a fine, the law was written against the lower classes.”

I find this principle useful - that a fine is just permission slip for people who can afford it.

But, in terms of environmental crimes as discussed in these comments, the reason corporation dump toxic waste in the river is to avoid the clean-up cost - it's an economic crime.

So in that case, it's an appropriate solution to fine a large multiple of the total clean-up cost plus damages. The point is to not make it an affordable option, no matter how rich you are.

Separately, fines which rise in proportional to wealth can work in a progressive way, e.g. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8446545.stm

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#176

Post by ska »

spoonjim wrote: post #130
swsieber wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the equivalent of this in the sports world would be fining a team some thousands of dollars for drug abuse instead of banning the offending players.

which they should, if the drug abuse was encouraged by team leaders and rewarded with promotions/contracts.

are you agreeing with the "instead of" in that post?

Through symmetry if a player is expelled from a league for doping, a manager who arranged/encouraged it should face the same, probably.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#177

Post by nightcracker »

Nacdor wrote: post #45

> Ticketmaster has agreed to pay a $10 million criminal fine Live Nation is worth $16 Billion. This is like a person with a $100k net worth having to pay a $62 fine, basically an expensive parking ticket. They might as well tell them to write "I will not hack my competitors" on the blackboard 100 times.

> This is like a person with a $100k net worth having to pay a $62 fine, basically an expensive parking ticket.

> They might as well tell them to write "I will not hack my competitors" on the blackboard 100 times.

Not even. I bet a person with a $100k net worth will probably rather pay $62 than have to do the blackboard punishment.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#178

Post by nightcracker »

nickff wrote: post #127
munk-a wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restitution is one of the comparably less important facets of our legal system (IMO), the important strength of a good legal system is deterrence. Restitution should (again IMO) in fact be severed from judgement, harmed parties should be reimbursed by the government and the government can excise penalties on the offending parties. There are a lot of cases where defendants should be hit with serious fines due to the p…

Aren't people constantly arguing that deterrence is ineffective against individuals, and that rehabilitation is best? I don't take a personal view on these things, but I would imagine that the people arguing for more severe 'punishment' of corporations and white-collar criminals are the ones arguing for lenience in violent and other individual crime.

The idea that companies and humans are in any way equivalent is preposterous.

Companies can not be rehabilitated because they aren't moral beings. They only understand one thing: profit. Thus for companies the financial deterrent is effective and appropriate.

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#179

Post by hemloc_io »

tareqak wrote: post #129

Could the $10 million fine be used by a future defendant to argue that the crime is not a big deal? What if members of FAANG+M decided to hack small startups or even each other?

Cyberpunk Corpo wars come closer and closer to reality every day...

Re: Ticketmaster admits it hacked Songkick before it went out of business

#180

Post by sixothree »

enkid wrote: post #111
whalesalad wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A parking ticket in Chelsea, Michigan is $8. I forgot to pay it for 6 months and they didn't even care.

Some places parking ticket is revenue, some places it's just a reminder.

I think I paid > $150 for parking too close to a driveway.
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