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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#171

Post by andrekandre »

breakfastduck wrote: post #93
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've plenty communicated their intention to not turn the Mac into the iPhone/iPad. Of course not, because they need to differentiate. This doesn't mean they renounce their plans to further lock down macOS. Running non-appstore apps is getting harder and harder each year.

Apart from the fact they've actively stated (repeatedly, during their main presentations) that running arbitrary code on a mac will not be changing. For a company that seems sometimes to go out of its way to not give any information on anything it doesn't make sense to clearly and concisely make that statement.

> running arbitrary code on a mac will not be changing.

i wonder how much of this is thanks to peoples "gnashing of teeth" about mac getting an iphone lockdown

in the end its speculation, but id wager a guess apple wouldnt have a big problem locking down macos if people didnt make a big deal out of it

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#172

Post by fsflover »

machello13 wrote: post #161
fsflover wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot start any non-Apple applications unless Apple explicitly allows them and keeps a list of what and when you are running. Looks totally fine...

Again, I'm having trouble making the leap from this: "Apple checks which macOS applications I run in order to verify that the developers credentials are still valid and not expired/revoked, but only for macOS apps and not executables in general, and you can still open apps that are not signed with a Developer ID using a manual bypass" (which is certainly not ideal but seems like a reasonable security compromise. Ther…

I suggest you read the comments in the linked thread. Why do I have to repeat those who can explain better than me? It's pretty clear that the current state:

1) cannot be called "fully unlocked",

2) more locked than what people used to have, even on Apple devices.

It might be fine for you, but it certainly is potentially bad for privacy and freedom. Look up keyword "tor" in the thread if genuinely want to understand and not trolling.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#173

Post by bsaul »

DCKing wrote: post #45
chpmrc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple adds limitations to protect the system: "too strict!" Apple gives the chance to disable these limitations to power users: "they should be disabled by default!" Apple disables limitations: "temporary convenient oversight?" ...

It's a bad faith argument. The presupposition is that Apple is inherently motivated to actively lock things down, because that's what they do with the iPhone. This glosses over that Apple has no reason to actually do so, only has reasons not to do it on the Mac, and has gone on record saying they won't treat the Mac as the iPhone. It's based on the notion that Apple would be against free booting a priori for some rea…

The reason people assume apple will prevent you from doing what you want with your computer, is because it’s the logical consequence of the strategy they’ve followed for the past 10 years over their whole product line. From phones, to cable, to messenging software. They’re into vertical integration and walled ecosystem.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#174

Post by deergomoo »

sneak wrote: post #35
reikonomusha wrote: post #21

For projects like these, I don’t know why Apple doesn’t just step in and help. What have they got to lose?

I agree with you in theory; in practice Apple seems to have enough issues just getting their own in-house OS to work right on these things. A lot of macOS internals are really a reflection of Apple's deadlines-over-everything, ship-at-all-costs attitude. Certain parts are great, because those teams seem to be great and are blockers, such as the kernel or the silicon. Other parts closer to the surface that aren't in q…

My biggest wish for the Mac is to take macOS back off yearly releases. Or at least make every other yearly release minor, just to add compatibility with whatever got added to iOS.

What’s the point in having a big release every year if takes six months to sand down all the rough edges?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#175

Post by INTPenis »

ogre_codes wrote: post #25
reikonomusha wrote: post #21

For projects like these, I don’t know why Apple doesn’t just step in and help. What have they got to lose?

I agree. At the very least, they should be a corporate sponsor for Marcan's Patreon. Ideally they should just hire him and provide him with internal resources to work on it. Even if Apple doesn't benefit from Linux running on bare metal, many of these efforts will benefit Linux running inside a VM as well.

It's also bonus points towards sustainability to ensure their devices have a life after obsolescence.

Honestly Apple could use some of those points considering how many little plastic parts they force people to buy.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#176

Post by ravi-delia »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #87
ravi-delia wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On any other apple computer I'd agree, but I really want some of that sweet ARM magic.

Just wait for SiFive and RISC-V, that's going to be the revolution I'll join :)

Oh believe me I fully intend to ride that train, but I'll wait for it to get to the station first.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#177

Post by SomeHacker44 »

pkulak wrote: post #79
turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

Mac hardware is just so damn good though. And everywhere. I absolutely agree with what you're saying... but man, Linux working well on an M1 Mac would be my ideal machine.

Every time I accidentally hit something on the touch bar, I hate that I still have a Mac. Every time I intentionally use the ESC and have to touch it two or three times, I hate the Mac. Every time I need an F key, or want to do something without looking (like change volume or hit mute), I hate the Mac. Thank goodness this year I stopped using it so much as I did not have to repair the keyboard twice and potentially get COVID as in previous years.

All in all, I am glad to dislike Macs with their abysmally bad keyboards and actively hostile and negatively productive touch bar. WSL is pretty nice.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#178

Post by klelatti »

samatman wrote: post #165
Wohlf wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't find them any better than the competing products in the same price range these days, but you do you.

Resale value is the closest thing to an objective measure we're going to get. The butterfly keyboard era Macs took a nosedive in this metric, because they were bad computers. I have what turns out to be the last Intel 16" MacBook Pro which Apple will ever build. I suspect the Intel part of it will make its resale value kind of grim, but the keyboard, speakers, monitor, build quality: all great. MacBooks traditionally…

I bought a new Intel 13" MBP just before the M1 announcement specifically because I needed an x86 machine.

No intention to sell but I suspect resale value will stay OK as there is likely to be ongoing demand from those who want a Mac for x86 cloud development (and non-technical users probably don't care if its x86 or M1).

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#179

Post by ravi-delia »

djsumdog wrote: post #105
rightisleft wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is it? my 2016 macbook was the worst apple product i've ever owned...

I got Linux running on a MacBook 14,3. It was ... less than ideal. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/linux-on-a-macbook-pro-14-3/ ..but I also don't want to see Linux get left in the dust. I'm more likely Intel or AMD crush the M1 in their next few generations.

I think that's pretty unlikely. The M1 is a totally new world from even the best x86 processors, especially in a laptop. Not only that, but Apple has indicated that the next generation is yet another quantum leap from this one. Eventually other companies will catch up, but I doubt it will be anyone without a stake in ARM already. NVIDIA looks like the one to do it.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#180

Post by GeekyBear »

benjaminl wrote: post #168
ksec wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I remember correctly Windows on ARM is still limited to 32bit Apps. And you can actually download Windows on ARM from Microsoft Insider Preview for Free. And run it on top of Parallels Desktop 16.

Windows on ARM supports 64bit ARM apps. What you were possibly remembering was that Windows on ARM when it was first introduced only supported emulating x86 apps. Although x64 emulation is currently in preview. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/porting/apps-on...

Legacy x86-64 app emulation has only just appeared in alpha form and still has massive compatibility issues.

I'd still call it something we hope to see in the future, instead of a working proof of concept.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA

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