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Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

asahilinux.org

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Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#81

Post by turbinerneiter »

Klonoar wrote: post #66
deadmutex wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the Mac laptop ID significantly different than other laptops, e.g. PixelBook Go? I have a MBA, and was super surprised at how think it was compared to my Pixelbook. I would say that Apple laptop ID nothing special, and is lacking things like a touchscreen, etc. I would say that M1 has good performance ON MAC SOFTWARE, which has been tuned for it (and vice versa). It is unknown if linux will perform as well on it.

The PixelBook is closer, sure - though still not as great when it comes to, say, the trackpad. Apple also still has a near-monopoly on amazing screens. These might seem inconsequential when you scan them on a list, but the entire package really adds up. Anyway, with that all said, the thread in question is about vendors who explicitly support Linux, which is a very different story. If I had to pick anything in that r…

I'm pretty sure System76 would really love to design an build macbook level laptops with M1 level chips, but how the hell are they ever supposed to get there?

It took Apple, what, 13 years from the iPhone to the M1, surfing on the wave of success of the iPhone.

There isn't even a processor vendor that is capable of supplying them an M1 level chip.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#82

Post by spurdoman77 »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

If they arent actively opposing it that can be enough.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#83

Post by Jtsummers »

fanatic2pope wrote: post #77
ogre_codes wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? If they'd intended to shut this down, they would have a locked down boot loader like on iOS. Instead they deliberately built a boot loader which supported things like this.

It wouldn't be unprecedented. Sony released the Playstation 3 with the ability to run Linux and removed it later using a firmware update. https://tedium.co/2020/11/27/sony-linux-otheros-geohot-histo...

The action isn’t unprecedented. But that’s a separate company. What has Apple done to make people expect this behavior when they’ve not done it before?

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#84

Post by danudey »

Hamuko wrote: post #44
brundolf wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would make a lot of sense. Windows is in a tight spot right now because OEMs have lagged on ARM. Apple could offer MS a way out of that, while at the same time giving people one more reason to spend money on a Mac.

Linus Tech Tips actually just released a video a couple of hours ago where they compared the Surface Pro X SQ2 with the M1 MacBook Air. It was not pretty. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA

So basically, the M1 Macbook Air is two to three times faster than the SQ2, including comparing ARM Windows on the SQ2 against ARM Windows in a VM on the M1 Air.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#85

Post by ravi-delia »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

On any other apple computer I'd agree, but I really want some of that sweet ARM magic.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#86

Post by kmeisthax »

actuator wrote: post #40

It seems so amazing to me that Microsoft saw the ARM opportunity with Windows RT, released 8 years back but somehow managed to not succeed with a stellar ARM laptop story. Maybe Qualcomm is more to blame here for never progressing as well as Apple has done on chips but maybe the software experience was just not there. We would probably already have good ARM laptops running linux distros if Windows on ARM had taken of…

Microsoft also saw the opportunity of tablet computing, media players, smartphones, and basically every other category where Apple has kicked them the pants despite coming out way later.

In this particular case, Microsoft wanted an iPad, right down to the complete and total lockout of all third-party app distribution. They wrote a completely new UI toolkit for fullscreen tablet apps that only Store apps could make use of, then shipped an ARM port that refused to load anything but those signed fullscreen tablet apps. The comparatively less-locked-down Intel models succeeded far better than the WinRT/ARM ones, so the lesson was mislearned as "people want Intel".

Apple knows that interfering with how people get their software to try and collect revenue is not a great idea; that's why the M1 Macs have the same security policy as Intel/T2 ones. If they had locked it down iOS style, creative professionals would be fleeing the Mac in droves and Adobe would seriously start considering native Photoshop on Linux.

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#87

Post by turbinerneiter »

ravi-delia wrote: post #85
turbinerneiter wrote: post #72

A lot of time, money and effort invested to support a platform whos creator is unwilling to provide support. I think it's part of the Linux ethos to run on everything, but I also think this kind of effort is ... not wasted, but I feel like it could be spent more efficiently. Still looking forward to hear about the first successful boots and the epic reverse engineering feats. Just wish this kind of stuff wouldn't be…

On any other apple computer I'd agree, but I really want some of that sweet ARM magic.

Just wait for SiFive and RISC-V, that's going to be the revolution I'll join :)

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#88

Post by miguelr2201 »

Interesting project and wish them best of luck.

On the claim:

>However, no modern device is “fully open” - no usable computer exists today that has completely open software and hardware (as much as some companies want to market themselves as such)

Doesn't RaptorCS[1] offer a fully open modern device? Or is there a closed part I'm not aware of?

[1] https://www.raptorcs.com/

Re: Asahi Linux: Linux on Apple Silicon project

#90

Post by zucker42 »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #87
ravi-delia wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On any other apple computer I'd agree, but I really want some of that sweet ARM magic.

Just wait for SiFive and RISC-V, that's going to be the revolution I'll join :)

Not useful for someone who wants a laptop within the next 10 years.

Top of the line laptops are probably going to be last devices that adopt RISC-V even assuming it significantly gains market share from ARM and x86.

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