Every successful enterprise requires three men – a dreamer, a businessman, and a son-of-a-bitch. ( Every opensource project required three people. Linus. Jacob. Asshole. ( kidding... ( before you stop tolerating me ) ) yes. lisp. )
I refuse to tolerate assholes
51–60 of 93 posts
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#52It's a gross oversimplification, but I try to live according to the dictum that it is easy to bifurcate behaviours into good and bad, but people are complex and subject to change, thus it is very difficult for me to brand someone as an "asshole." http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-0... UPDATE: Thinking about the OP, I wonder if seeing behaviours as simple and people as complex actually helps y…
> But if you focus on the behaviour, you can try to negotiate: "You are a genius, your work on ___ is brilliant. However, this behaviour ____ is unacceptable, please stop doing it. Here is why..., Here is something more constructive you could consider..."
Incredibly well said - that's the point I was reaching towards and couldn't quite articulate perfectly, apparently. Ideally, we'd call out shitty behavior and change that behavior. I didn't mean to suggest a "my way or the highway" attitude; rather, my point is that we shouldn't keep quiet when someone's being a jerk.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#53An option is to reject their behaviour instead of rejecting them. Call them on it, objectively and matter-of-factly, instead of calling them names.
Hard to do.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#54Preface: Something I've noticed about jerks/assholes: they're convinced that they're surrounded by jerks and/or assholes. Almost none of them are jerks for no reason. They're almost always jerks in response to some slight (either imagined, or blown way out of proportion). A good sign that you might be a jerk is that you see jerks all around you. Most people are basically all right. If you (1) run into conflicts with…
"A good sign that you might be a jerk is that you see jerks all around you."
The same goes for various other personality traits. If someone refuses to trust anybody else they likely can't be trusted themselves; I've seen it myself several times.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#55Have you looked in the mirror, man? That entire posts exudes the exact same behavior you are condemning. You've asked for them to be fired? That wasn't your place, and the penalty is far too harsh for the crime. You were attempting to ruin their livelihood because you don't like them. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." - The Bible. Nobody would get to throw a stone. Nobody fits the criteria of being 'p…
In the case I'm talking about, the gentleman in question threw a chair out a window halfway through a meeting. This after months of threatening violence against co-workers after showing up to work drunk.
You bet your ass I asked for him to be fired. He wasn't, so I quit.
I'm very sorry that my post rubbed you the wrong way. My intention is simply to suggest that we shouldn't tolerate antisocial behavior in our communities, and that we should ask those behaving badly to stop. Do you disagree?
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#56I'm pretty sure working with an asshole just means that the person you are working with simply doesn't like you. It doesn't mean that they are an asshole to everyone, which in some cases they might be, but most of the time, I'm sure they just don't like you, for whatever reason. So what does that make you? A pushover? At the very least, it makes you someone who identifies other people's behavior, which pretty much makes you judgmental and fearful, and also, if you understand "the secret", it makes you someone who attracts assholes. Instead of "refusing to tolerate assholes", be an asshole right back and maybe they might respect you. Never push someone away just because you don't know how to interact with them, and that's the thing, you don't know how to interact with them, cause if you did, they would like you & respect you.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
If one of my coworkers was being abusive to anyone I would absolutely expect my boss to fire them. Edit: Or I would expect the boss to fire themselves for not being able to protect the team from the asshole.
Should Steve Jobs be fired?
For every Steve Jobs there are a million assholes who can be replaced by warmer, equally talented characters.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#58It's a gross oversimplification, but I try to live according to the dictum that it is easy to bifurcate behaviours into good and bad, but people are complex and subject to change, thus it is very difficult for me to brand someone as an "asshole." http://github.com/raganwald/homoiconic/blob/master/2009-05-0... UPDATE: Thinking about the OP, I wonder if seeing behaviours as simple and people as complex actually helps y…
> But if you focus on the behaviour, you can try to negotiate: "You are a genius, your work on ___ is brilliant. However, this behaviour ____ is unacceptable, please stop doing it. Here is why..., Here is something more constructive you could consider..." Incredibly well said - that's the point I was reaching towards and couldn't quite articulate perfectly, apparently. Ideally, we'd call out shitty behavior and chang…
Our words are in violent agreement. I wish more people would call my bad behaviour out.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#59I think perhaps I haven't been clear enough, because most here seem to be missing what I intended to be my central argument; to quote:
I will call out antisocial behavior, enforce professionalism in the communities where I have the power to do, and leave the communities that cannot at least offer civility.
In other words, if someone's being a jerk, we should call them on it. I didn't mean to suggest dividing the world into "assholes" and "good people" — clearly there's a spectrum, and clearly even saints have bad days. And I certainly didn't mean we should ostracize people at the first sign of shitty behavior.
But if someone's abusive, and they refuse to moderate their behavior, then either they need to leave or I will. I just can't accept that allowing abusive behavior is the price we have to pay for good code.
Re: I refuse to tolerate assholes
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Steve Jobs was fired ... and look what happened to Apple while he was gone. Good parallel? Probably not, but it isn't a unique situation.
There wasn't anyone nice to replace him. Having the company depend on one vital asshole is a worst-case scenario.
I'd rather have a vital asshole, than be missing the vital component altogether.